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Maurice Levy: We were talking about the. Starting the starting age of
youngsters, and you indicate that you thought seven was was about was an
optimum time as any.
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Lucretia Russell Marracino: It is to me. I think if a child is extremely
interested and begging for lessons, that's different. I think if you force
a child five years old who isn't really interested, you're not going to get
anywhere. But of course, we're leaving out Suzuki here. The people who
teach Suzuki think they should start at three and four. But I don't.
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Levy: What's your feeling about the Suzuki method?
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Marracino: I don't think much of it. I mean, I, I don't want to say too
much about that, but Isaac Stern came out in an article. Did you see that
article? It was in US News and World Report and he said, it's just a big
fake. It's no good at all.
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Levy: He doesn't think it produces what finished musicians.
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Marracino: Well, there's a problem with Suzuki, and I don't care what they
say, it's a problem. It may not be with really brilliant students. Who
catch on right away. But those children all learn to play without learning
to read. And they can play like crazy. But then when you want to get them
to read, some of them don't want to read. If you could play without looking
at the music, wouldn't you prefer to do that? And it's not true of
everyone, of course, but I still have. I have a pupil right now who started
Suzuki. She's very talented. She plays very well. Um, but she has
difficulty with reading. And when she first came to me, she just would read
a piece and learn it, memorize it, and wouldn't look at it again. But I've
kind of fought with her about that. And she is reading. But that's not a
good thing..
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Levy: Yeah. How how how can they sit in with the group if somebody puts a
sheet of music in front of them?
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Marracino: Well, they can't, they can't, they can't. Of course, many of
them learn to read and it's fine, but it depends a lot on the pupil and I
think. Um. It's not good for everybody.
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Levy: The child has to be adaptable for that type of.
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Marracino: Well, yeah. You ask a successful Suzuki teacher and they will
say it's marvelous for everybody. I'm sure they would. And maybe.
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Levy: I, I don't I don't even know the principles behind it. I just know
the name and the and the claims that they make for success. But as a
teacher, I know that there's no such thing as the method for everybody.
Marracino: Oh, no. Levy: Risen! Oh, no. Because each each human being is a
is a is a product of a different experience. That's right. And they have a
different genetic makeup. And there's no way that anybody's ever invented a
way to, to to do violin or piano or mathematics.
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Marracino: Hmm. That's a touchy subject here.
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Levy: Well, but that and it's a touchy subject because people were not
taught it properly.
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Marracino: I think maybe that has something to do with my problems. I was
taught arithmetic properly and I can do arithmetic very well. Algebra.
Nothing.
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Levy: Well, it's it's not the end of the world either. And they're going
to go into a diatribe on mathematics. He can live a pretty full life with a
minimum of skills.
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Marracino: Well, if you're in music, you can arithmetic you need. But
right there you don't.
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Levy: So the the you're teaching them, you primarily deal with them.
Youngsters above the age of seven. The bulk of them are in their teens,
would you say?
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Marracino: No, I think.
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Levy: Or you have adults.
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Marracino: Oh, I have adults. Yes.
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Levy: I have more adults than teenagers.
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Marracino: No. Well, more adults than teenagers, maybe. I have about ten
adults, and I never think about the proportion of the. The ones between,
let's say, ten and. They're nine and 12 as opposed to those that are older
than 12, I can't.
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Levy: They're actually they're just people with fingers who can play or
they can't play.
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Marracino: Well, one or the other.
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Levy: That's right. Uh, the the. Of course. You're an active member in the
Pittsburgh Piano Teachers Association. Uh, and. What? How how is teaching
changed in the last? Say 20 years. 25. Way you taught it. Say. 25 years
ago, and the way you teach it today or even 35 years ago.
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Marracino: Well, you'd get 30 different answers to that if you asked 30
piano teachers. In my opinion, the greatest the best thing that happened,
uh, to beginning teaching was certain books, uh, which teach the children
without their learning. This is C, this is D, this is, you know, that way.
And the uh starting on middle C, heaven forbid, because that becomes a
magnet. They can't get away from it. Um. Now we have. Well, the book that I
particularly like is the Frances Clarke series, and they start there was a
beginning of time to begin book, which is teaching them things like what's
up and what's down on the keyboard. Um. Something about rhythm. The simpler
rhythm, and at the end of that book, they begin to know what a step is from
a space to the next line, from a line to the next space. Or they learn what
a third is from a space to the next space, a line to the next line, and so
forth. Intervals, in other words. And then when they get into the book, the
next book, they have three landmarks middle C, bass F and treble G, which
are equal distance equidistant from each other fifths. And they have to
learn all of those and they start from. One of them and read up or down
one, and then they learn to read up or down two. But they're not ever
saying, this is, this is such and such a letter, just the C, F, and G.
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Levy: So you've more or less liberated them from the concept of the
literal yes, uh, label.
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Marracino: You read about intervals, in other words.
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Levy: Is that done generally in other instruments too, today?
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Marracino: I couldn't say, I don't know, but I it's not done even all the
time in piano books. Um, that you still have lots of piano books put out by
contemporary educators who start from middle C.
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Levy: That's what the old way. What it was 50 years ago.
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Marracino: John Thompson. John Williams, all those old. And the book I
started with did that too. But. It was a long time ago, and that book was
written by a woman that my father knew, and she had a lot of nice poetry in
it. It's called Ten Fingers Going to the zoo, and the poetry was better
than the the musical part. But my father didn't limit himself. He never did
study a lot of how to teach little children. He just taught me the way he
thought I ought to be taught. And I can't tell you all what music I used
because I don't remember it all, but. He didn't bother with those little
books. I don't think.
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Levy: And you say that the one you used now is Elizabeth Clarke.
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Marracino: Frances Clarke.
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Levy: Frances Clarke. Uh, that's probably used widely.
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Marracino: I think so, but there's still a lot that are used widely that
aren't anything like that.
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Levy: What activities? Do you or have you been involved with with the
Pittsburgh Piano Teachers Association? Can you describe what the group
does?
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Marracino: Uh, the group meets every month for eight months. The first
meeting is, of course, President's Day. And that's a program of an outside.
Not necessarily a just a recital, but something from the outside. We have,
um, well, I have the yearbook here, for that matter. We have various kinds
of helpful instructional programs. Either I think this month it's going to
be a woman who is going to talk about. I forget. What? Um. Last month, it
was three of us. Who? I'm getting into a thing here that I would have to
explain. Um, the federation, the well, the National Federation of Music
Clubs sponsors a kind of what they call a festival in March. And pupils can
play in that. They play one piece from a book of required pieces, which are
all American composers, and then they may choose a piece of their own. Uh,
they play these two pieces from memory in front of usually two teachers,
and they get a rating. It is not a competition, but they get a rating, and
they get a certificate for having played with their rating written on it.
And if they get three superior ratings in a row, they get a cup, a Gold
cup. And this is quite an incentive for the kids. It's really very good. So
what we did in October, uh, three of us divided up those required pieces.
This was a new book of the required pieces, and most of the teachers
weren't familiar with a lot of that music. So one person took the early
part of it, and I had the middle part, and somebody else had the more
advanced. And we played some of them for the teachers and commented on them
and gave them a list of the ones that we thought were the best, so that
they had something to go by. That was mainly. It was mainly for the
teachers who belonged to the Federation, which not all of them do. But
other teachers would have profited by it too because they would learn a lot
of new material, and it saves them digging through it.
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Levy: What kind of membership do you have? How many people belong to the
Pittsburgh teachers? About.
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Marracino: I think it's over 100.
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Levy: 100?
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Marracino: Quite large.
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Levy: In addition to, uh, activities that you just described, what would
go on in other meetings? What do you discuss? You talk about the left hand
today and the right hand. No kidding.
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Marracino: Well. Let's see. We had Patricia Prattis last year. Um.
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Levy: Oh, she. She spoke to you and she gave a recital.
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Marracino: No, she didn't give a recital. She gave a master class for
kids. And there were, I guess, three pupils maybe, that were chosen. And
each one, one played a Mozart sonata, one played something else, and one
played the Gershwin Preludes. And she. You know what a master class is?
Well, that's what she did. She commented on them and encouraged them
mostly.
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Levy: And it's a positive critical.
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Marracino: We have. Yeah, we have a Pittsburgh piano teachers have
competitions. They have about four now the elementary, the whatever they
call the next one, the junior and the senior. And they have um. They are
judged by the piano teachers themselves. I mean a committee of them, except
for the senior. And then we have an outside judge for that one, because the
prize is $200. The first prize my pupil won that last year. Levy: Really?
Marracino: Yeah. Um. So they all got cash prizes, the winners and the
second and third usually too. That's a good incentive. Uh, we have a camp
scholarship. Every year, one person is sent to a music camp in the summer
on one of our scholarships. Um. We have composition contests for the
students and for the teachers, and those are cash prizes also. In February.
We have all the prizes, all the prize winning pieces performed because
that's American Music Month. And. I feel I get my yearbook and see what
we're doing this year. Is that all right? Fine.
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Levy: Let's take a look at a typical, uh, uh, set of programs that the
Teachers Association has projected for this year.
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Marracino: All right. Uh, we first always have a student of the month. Any
teacher who was interested in having a student perform submits the name,
and and they're usually very good. Um, in September, we had, uh, Ted Brown,
who, an accomplished thespian and pianist, recreates the life and music of
Ludwig van Beethoven. And he's very good. He last year he did. Liszt. And
next year I think he's going to do Mozart. I think they're overdoing Mr.
Brown a little bit, but. They like him. And then we had student of the
Month in October, and the review of the junior festival required
repertoire. That's what I was telling you about. In November, we have
Tatiana Gelman, private teacher and faculty member at Carnegie Mellon, and
the subject is preparing a student for competition. That's a good a good
subject. In December. We have entertainment, the intricate rhythms of
Eastern Europe as performed by Frank. Thozekovic and selected members of
the Tamburitzans. Uh, we don't meet in January and February. We have
American Music Month when we have the student and teacher composers. The
performance of their winning compositions. Um in March. Student of the
month. The. A Pittsburgh Piano Teachers member piano panel on unique
teaching aids. Um, now I remember songs to help, songs to help. Done by
Rita Gorman. Suzuki a philosophy and up to date view of Suzuki method by
Pat Pavlik. Pat is a very successful teacher of Suzuki. April Marilyn
Schmidt, co-founder and faculty member of the Community Music School in
Allentown, PA. The elements of successful preschool piano teaching are.
Demonstration using videotape. And in May we have the student award winners
of the art competition all play. And then we have gentlemen at the
keyboard. This year, we're spotlighting the men that are members of our
organization. Who are not too numerous, but there was.
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Levy: You do have what percentage? Out of 100. How many are men about?
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Marracino: Oh, we've got six here. I don't know.
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Levy: If there's any more..
Marracino: Oh there are a few others. Yes. I don't I would think probably
about. 10, 12. Maybe.
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Levy: Well that that that's a good overview of of the activities of the
group because. I get somebody on the outside would say, what do they do?
They sit and socialize and. Marracino: No, no. Levy: And it's actually a
very professional approach to, Marracino: Oh, yes. Levy: Improving your,
uh. Professional life.
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Marracino: The primary. We have the primary performance competition, the
with required pieces. Always they have to play and the required pieces.
Elementary performance competition, junior performance and senior
performance. And they all have these required pieces that they have to
play.
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Levy: And the organization, it was organized in 1936.
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Marracino: While the teachers of the Institute, I think, was one of the
founders of it. Mrs. Wilson, in fact, she was.
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Levy: Uh, I, uh, when you hear the code of ethics. Marracino: Oh, yes.
Levy: Uh, the first one. The second one was an interesting one. Members
will not make unwarranted promises that might lead a student to false hopes
of a career in music. I thought that was a. I guess. I guess that's a
consideration that some people may want. A little unethical would say,
well, you take lessons from me and you're going to end up at Carnegie
Hall.
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Marracino: That's right. And that's very bad. I never.
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Levy: End up just taking tickets at Carnegie Hall.
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Marracino: I never urge any people to go into music professionally,
because I think unless you're extremely excited about it and interested,
you should not. You don't make money. You end up poor.
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Levy: So you said that when the GIs came back in in the late 40s and
50s, you taught, uh pedagogy.
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Marracino: Piano pedagogy, uh, music appreciation and music history. It
was a wild experience with some of those. Young men who had never heard any
classical music and thought they weren't interested in it.
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Levy: Well, I'm sure that you converted some people.
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Marracino: I did. I was amazed at one time about the third year or so that
was those things were in the first two years, and one of the least likely
of these veterans said to me, you know, I really miss your class. And I
said, you do. He said, I miss hearing that music. So that was rewarding.
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Levy: They will set somebody off on the right road then.
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Marracino: Well started, I guess.
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Levy: You you have an extensive experience in listening to great artists.
Of course, in Pittsburgh we had that opportunity, and you told me earlier
that you've gone to most of the Y concerts for the last, what, 50 years?
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Marracino: Probably something like that.
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Levy: Have you heard Milstein in his debut? Yeah, that's that's over 60
years ago. Wow. Milstein came to Pittsburgh.
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Marracino: I heard all the many of the Art Society concerts. We used to
have, the Pittsburgh Art Society. Has anyone told you about that?
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Levy: I don't really, I, I may have seen it superficially, but I really
don't know enough to comment. Can you tell us something about that?
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Marracino: Yes. Um, I can't tell you who founded it, although I might.
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Levy: We can. We can find that out. But what is what was your experience?
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Marracino: Uh, well, they had, I think probably 4 or 5 concerts a year.
And they brought wonderful artists to Carnegie Hall. Um, I heard a lot of
Lame on there, I heard.
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Speaker3: Uh.
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Marracino: There are really all the all the great artists and like the Y
they had variety. You know, they had violinists, they had singers, they had
pianists and I and my recollection there were more singers than the Y ever
has. They usually have one a year.
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Levy: That's right, that's right. Because I understand the committee
usually is not heavy on people who like vocal.
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Marracino: No apparently not. And then the May Beegle concerts, which were
at the Mosque, I heard many of those, um, a woman who was had been a
prominent singer, Christine Miller, and her name was Clemson. At the time.
I knew her, lived here in Pittsburgh. She she was a nationally known
singer. Have you heard of her?
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Levy: No, I don't know.
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Marracino: Oh. Well, um. She always had the best seats down there in the
first floor of the Mosque, and very often didn't go and usually let me have
her tickets. So I heard a lot of the May Beegle concerts who were which
were again the most famous artists. Um. The Y. And a lot of.
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Levy: You got the Symphony too. Oh, yes, oh.
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Marracino: Yes, yes. I went to many symphony concerts all through the
various stages of the symphony, starting back with, uh.
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Levy: Uh, back to the 20s.
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Marracino: Well, I don't go back to Victor Herbert, but I go back to, uh
oh, Modarelli, Vittorio Modarelli.
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Levy: And he finished in 1936.
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Marracino: Yeah, I remember him.
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Levy: In the early 30s..
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Marracino: And then everybody from there on.
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Levy: We all know. Yeah, right.
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Marracino: And it was a big, great big man. Klemperer.
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Levy: Klemperer is here for the six performances and six weekends in
1936.
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Marracino: And then Victor de Sabata.
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Levy: Yeah he came in in the late 40s, early 50s. Yeah, everybody
remembers him.
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Marracino: Well, he was such a dramatic and, um, magnetic personality.
Really. When he came out on the stage, you thought, oh.
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Levy: Amazing. All the all the people I talked to who bring up the
Symphony, they always bring up Victor de Sabata. And, uh, he he made such
an imprint. Marracino: He really did. Levy: On the city, the, the few
concerts. And they weren't a lot of them. They didn't give a lot of them.
He wasn't the, you know, he wasn't a conductor, a permanent conductor or
anything. But when he came, he was excited that he.
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Marracino: He did. It was very exciting. However, I do remember that after
a number of them, it kind of wore off, uh, and it didn't seem so
interesting or exciting, I can't explain.
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Levy: In other words it didn't wear well.
Marracino: No.
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Levy: Well, that sometimes happens when it's excessive.
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Marracino: Yes, yes.
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Levy: You're going to take it the first time. The second time. Okay. But
the third time it's quieted down.
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Marracino: Yes. That's right.
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Levy: Somebody somebody described that to me. They say the flamboyant
pianist is fun the first time, but the second time you want to say play the
music.
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Marracino: Yeah. That's right. We don't include Alfred Brendel in that.
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Levy: No, I don't think we're going to have that problem with Alfred
Brendel, although I. There's a gap in this tape from counter 277 to 325,
for either a mechanical difficulty or an error in pressing down the record
button, or not pressing it down. The tape resumes at counter 325.
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Levy: The Pittsburgh Concert Society. The original purpose of it was
really to nurture young talent, wasn't it?
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:14.000
Marracino: To give them a chance to perform and be paid. Levy: Be paid.
Marracino: They always were paid. If it wasn't very much, at least it was
something.
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Levy: So they were set up several concerts a year, auditioned young people
and pick people they thought were worthy to perform.
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Marracino: Yeah. I think often have had an outside judge. They usually do
now, in any case. But for their Young People's concert, the members, some
of the members do the judging. At least that's been the. The policy.
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Levy: But that may be changing. As time goes by then.
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Marracino: Well, I. don't know much about it now. I haven't been going to
the concerts. I just heard. Oh, I suppose you'd call it a rumor that they
were going to move from Duquesne to someplace else. For the concerts, but
that's not a fact. That's a rumor.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Levy: Well, what what what are your recollections of the Tuesday Musical
Club?
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:24.000
Marracino: My recollections of the Tuesday Musical Club start back when I
was a little girl, because my mother was a member of it, and I always heard
a lot about it at home. And then when I got back from New York, uh, I
sometime after that, I joined the Tuesday Musical Club. Well, mainly
because the Federation was going to meet here, and some woman that was
making up a program wanted me and my father to play.
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Levy: And which Federation?
00:25:26.000 --> 00:26:10.000
Marracino: The Federation. Pennsylvania Federation of Music Clubs. And I
couldn't play unless I was a member, so I joined. Well, I've been a member
ever since and quite an active member. And my mother was president in.
Well, I don't know exactly what year, but she, uh. Yeah, she was 79 years
old when she became a president. I thought that was remarkable. She called
me and asked me if I thought she should do it. I said, it's a question I'm
not going to answer. She was president from 61 to 63, and then I was
president from 77 to 79, and I didn't really want to do it, but I thought
it would be the only time so far that mother and daughter had both been
president. So I did it.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:15.000
Levy: Oh, that's a good reason. But I'm sure you were involved with the
with the purpose of the club.
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.000
Marracino: Oh, yes, very much so.
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Levy: But how did you view it? What was your your. View of the club, what
it did, how successful it was. What was its primary goal?
00:26:29.000 --> 00:27:44.000
Marracino: Well. Its primary goal was in a way similar to the Concert
Society to give people an opportunity to perform. Who wanted to, and also
to let people invite people to belong who were not musicians but wanted to
be a part of it. So it's always been a combination of of musical programs
and social life. Uh, every program that we have, we have a tea afterward, a
chance to talk to each other. And now, over the years, these various groups
have developed. The piano division is very large, meets every month in
homes. And we have a program always a. The mimeograph program and the. Um,
followed by lunch. Very, very good. We have a lot of good pianists. This is
the piano division. You see how large it is? This is the vocal division.
The vocal division does two things. They get together and sing for each
other solos. And then they put on an opera. Every year they have an opera
group which is part of their activity. Um, we have a um, instrumental
ensemble, which this year is going to be conducted by Roy Sun, who plays
the violin in the symphony.
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:51.000
Levy: Who directed the group last evening, the Ionian Chamber. Oh, did he
the concerto grossi. Good.
00:27:51.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Marracino: And his wife is a member of our club. She's a very good singer.
Opera Workshop. I mentioned, um, we have a choral division which is
conducted by, uh, Mary Louise Wright, who's the organist at the Baptist
First Baptist Church. We have Composers Division, which is very active. And
this particular week we are, oh, a chamber music division too.
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:21.000
Levy: Was that open to the public? I mean, do you have do you have not I
mean, not just membership, but I mean attendance at the function.
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:28.000
Marracino: They're all open to the public. We don't charge. We used to
have a guest fee. We have. Not anymore.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Levy: I don't see the the publicity for it very much.
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.000
Marracino: We can't get publicity. We try.
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:39.000
Levy: You were talking about the scholarship?
00:28:39.000 --> 00:29:16.000
Marracino: Yeah. The Tuesday Musical Club gives scholarships to students
who are ready for college or up through. I think through a five years, I
believe is the limit on what they can have. And the scholarship fund was
founded many years ago and has added to from time to time. Uh, this year we
have. The five. We have five Tuesday Musical Club scholarship winners. We
have three for the Enola and Louis Scholarship, which we administer for the
Mellon Bank. This was left to be done by the bank, and of course they
didn't know what to do with it.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Levy: Some kind of an endowment. Yes, the gift.
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:49.000
Marracino: And the Irene Drab Award, another which is administered for the
Pittsburgh Foundation. So. Totally. We have a long a large list of
scholarship winners. They they earn these scholarships in competition and
then they have to be re-auditioned every year in order to maintain the
scholarship. And we've had some wonderful. Wonderful people have gone right
on into. Concert work. Well, I'll tell you. One is Ann Panagoulias, who.
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:50.000
Levy: Oh, I.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:57.000
Marracino: You know who she is? Sure. I was on the committee when she was
when she sang for the committee.
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Marracino: Lovely, lovely singer.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Marracino: So that's our. And then we also have the Music Care Committee.
These are people who go out and give programs in nursing homes and. Places
like that. Old folks homes.
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:20.000
Levy: You were not aware of this? This kind of thing isn't isn't public.
Isn't it was public.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:32.000
Marracino: It was publicized. I think those things were publicized quite a
bit at the time of our 100th anniversary, which was two years ago. And, uh.
There was a lot of publicity then about it.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:38.000
Levy: I must have missed. Well, obviously I missed it, but.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Marracino: That was when Eunice Norton played all the Beethoven sonatas in
honor of our centennial.
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.000
Marracino: Over at the Frick Museum.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.000
Levy: Right.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Marracino: And we had a lot of special programs. And then we oh, we had a
big, uh, celebration, an evening celebration at which we had a music, an
orchestra, uh. Orchestra Nova is the orchestra. Marracino: from
Monroeville. Levy: From Monroeville. Um, the two Phillips boys, Todd and.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:32:10.000
Levy: Stoddard.
Marracino: Danny. Danny, who were both Tuesday Musical scholarship
winners, played on that occasion. The Bach.
