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Peggy Pierce Freeman: [?] lives with her.
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Maurice Levy: Okay.
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Freeman: Uh, she was the secretary for the National Negro Opera Company
and Foundation. She lived in Washington. When her aunt moved to Washington,
she became the national secretary.
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Levy: She's the niece of Cardwell Dawson?
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Freeman: Yes. Yes. And she's the niece of Mrs. Gardner.
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Levy: [?] Edwards Lee?
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Freeman: Mhm. Yes. She is um, um. Here in Pittsburgh. Levy: Of course,
she's also the niece of Catherine Gardner. Freeman: Right, right. Levy: I
think that.
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Freeman: [?] Elementary that was but the one reason she, she naturally
she's with her because Catherine would be alone if it weren't for her, you
know, being with her. She moved here from Washington, D.C., so she could be
with her aunt. About five years ago.
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Levy: You said that the, uh, uh, Mrs., uh. Freeman: Gardner. Levy: Mrs.
Gardner is in her 80s?
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Freeman: Yes, but she's a very sophisticated lady in her 80s. Yes. When
you when you get a chance. Levy: Yeah Im gonna call her. Freeman: Sure.
You do that. You do that. I couldn't I would be remiss if I had not
mentioned that. Although you call. Levy: Those those are the kind of people
that I have to that I'd like to find out about. Freeman: Right. Levy:
Because, uh, we want to we want to be able to reconstruct at least as well
as we can. Freeman: Yes. Levy: The cultural and musical life of of
Pittsburgh. Freeman: Of Pittsburgh. Levy: After the turn of the century, we
can't go back much before 1910. But there we have people around who.
Freeman: Oh sure. Levy: Remember things from from World War I. Freeman:
Certainly. Levy: Some of the older people.
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Freeman: Certainly. Have you heard of James Miller? James Miller was a
Black composer, one of the first Black teachers ever to to to be hired by
the by Pittsburgh school board. Now his family is over in the North side
and he's got many compositions. Um, Please Don't Drive Me Away is an
arrangement of his. Sinner Please Don't Let This Harvest Pass. James Miller
received a scholarship to go to France to study. He went to Carnegie
Mellon. He's a graduate of Carnegie Mellon when it was a Carnegie Institute
at that time. Levy: Right. Freeman: But he wouldn't leave the States. He
wanted to stay here, but he had an offer to go to France. Now. His family's
the Robertson family. And I don't know whether I can. I don't know where I
can find their address. I know that they I think they still belong to
Bidwell Church. Uh, James Miller. I have a picture of him over there in
that thing there. Uh, by the way, I want to get back to this. This was
something else that Maudelena Johnson started. Series. Treble Clef concert
series now to celebrate their silver anniversary. The Madam performed this
concert series and for six years we gave over 20,000. We gave not over, but
$20,000 in scholarships or money raised to to give to people who
participated on the program. Each year we'd have a series that had maybe
three concerts a year. Do you remember? You know, Mary Hardy? Levy: Oh,
yes. Freeman. Okay. Levy: Sure. I interviewed Mary Hardy. Freeman: Okay.
Levy: Yes. She was a secretary of the Carnegie Music Hall.
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Freeman: All right. We used to go to her office all the time to get the
money to pay for the recital hall, Carnegie. Carnegie Lecture Hall, Mrs.
Johnson and myself. Now you know Darwyn Apple, who plays with the, um, he
plays with the um. Is in that book. He plays with the St. Louis Symphony, I
think now. He was a prodigy. When he came here, we presented him not I
don't know what year that is because we had we had six different years.
Levy: 1961-62. Freeman: I don't know where he's not listed on there, is he?
No, no.
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Levy: No, no. Well, one of the names I recognized, Paul Ross, who's with.
Freeman: Right. Levy: Whos still with the symphony. Freeman: He's been
right here. I used to practice with him. Yes. Well, Paul Ross was one of
our, uh. Levy: Of course. Your your husband's name.
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Freeman: Yeah. Okay. I don't know where those other books are. They're
around here someplace. But we did that for about six years. And the people
would buy a season ticket, which would let them, you know, back their
season ticket, $10, you know, come to three concerts during the year or
whatever. How many concerts, whatever it was, and they were very
successful. That's another thing that happened that should be in the
archives of the Carnegie Library.
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Levy: Well, we hope that we can we can get copies of these things and make
a complete file. As complete as possible.
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Freeman: Sure. All right. And I'll probably look around to see if I have
some more programs.
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Levy: Right. Freeman: Mhm. Levy: Because it. There should be some visible
evidence of all this activity. And because I'd be willing to bet if you
were to ask the average musician, not the average citizen who goes to
concerts, they're not aware of this. Freeman: No. Levy: Because it's
outside their experience.
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Freeman: This is true. And the average person in the Black community, Mr.
Levy did know, doesn't know that the of course, if they're not interested
to know about music, but they did not probably know that the operas were
formed in Syria, played in Syria Mosque. A lot of the community, a lot of
our prominent Black community persons who are out there doing things
probably didn't know anything about this.
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Levy: Right? It was it was outside their their particular interest.
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Freeman: Right. And they don't know it. Now, even, you know, uh, here's
something that I did. Mr.. Um, Prattis. Patricia Prattiss father was a
fan of mine. He was a he was a part of Mary Cardwell Dawson's board for the
National Negro Opera Company, and he was always an admirer of my playing.
And he asked me to to sort of write up Patricia's graduate recital. So
there it is. You can see the date, my name I did, and I cherish that. I've
got that's why I put copies of it like that on that board. So I won't lose
that.
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Levy: Yeah, I know Pat very well. Freeman: Mhm. Levy: She was at
Westinghouse when I taught there. I didn't know her then. Freeman: Yes.
Levy: But yeah, now I just she just gave a recital the other night with
Anne Martindale Williams.
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Freeman: I missed that.
Levy: It was wonderful.
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Freeman: They tell me it was great.
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Levy: Just wonderful.
Freeman: Yeah, I missed that last year.
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Levy: Shes a marvelous pianist.
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Freeman: Yes she is.
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Levy: She's a marvelous musician.
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Freeman: Mhm. So, um, that's another thing, you know, that I'm sort of
proud of. Now we've gone through the National Negro Opera Company. We've
gone through the Mary Cardwell Dawson branch, which I am a founder of the
Mary Cardwell Dawson branch, 1987. We received the charter. Um, what else
have I done? Oh, by the way, someone has been talking to me from the, um.
What is this? I have to meet her next week. Pittsburgh History and
Landmarks Foundation. Do you know of Nancy Meyers[?] She's from out of
Minnesota, and she called me because someone had given her my name and we
met for lunch. Um, but she had a tape recorder, but it was too noisy in
Kaufmanns[?] and we couldn't do it. So she's going to we're going to do it
again. And I gave her some material there. They're trying to get some of
this stuff into the archives of, um, of the Landmarks Foundation about the
Black community. Now. Levy: It belongs there. Freeman: Huh? Levy: It
belongs there.
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Freeman: Yes. Now you can. Here's the overview. You could read it, but
then I want you to notice this, and then I'm going to show you something.
You can get an idea of what the front is. And then on the second page there
you'll see where I have enclosed. A paragraph, and then I want to show you
something. And when I told her that, she was overwhelmed.
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Levy: This. This paper that you just showed me was just May 10th of this
year, right here at the Holiday Inn. Freeman: Yes. Levy: In Oakland. And it
was a, uh, uh, Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission. Freeman: Mhm.
Levy: We certainly should have a copy of this. Freeman: Mhm. Levy: You must
give us a copy of this.
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Freeman: All right. I have another one somewhere where I'm going to get
and get it copied for you. Get it copied? What did I do with that thing?
Uh, let's see if I can find, you know, if I always say if anything had
happened to me and my kids take this stuff, I hope they wouldn't burn it
up. But, you know, you never know what kids are going to do.
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Levy: Well, it doesn't have the same meaning to them. Freeman: To them.
They call it. I'm sure they're proud of their mother, but they don't. Levy:
Sure, they're proud, but they they don't. They don't understand the
importance of some of the things you have.
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Freeman: That's true. That's it, that's it exactly. Now, I want to find I
have, um.
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Levy: Maybe ought to reorganize some of it and figure out some of the
things that you ought to give the library that may or may not be. Freeman:
Right. Levy: You may want to may not want to keep, uh. I'm sure you're
running out of space here. You have such a collection of. Freeman: Oh, you.
Levy: Materials.
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Freeman: That back room upstairs, that back room upstairs is just full of
stuff. Okay, wait a minute. I think maybe I might have another one in here.
And I have, um, I have, um. Books that I have started. To, um, put stuff
in. I don't know what I did with this. No, it's not in here. Just [?] the
page. But here. Here's what it was, though, Mr. Levy. And they had the
wrong caption here. They had the wrong caption here. It was not. It wasn't
supposed to be music. Uh, it wasn't supposed to be, uh.
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Levy: A gap occurred at this point because the record mechanism was turned
off since Mrs. Freeman was searching for some material, but inadvertently
the play button was still on so that the tape ran on until counter 154. So
there is this gap.
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Freeman: She has a school over there, I think. Have you heard of that?
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Levy: Uh oh. You mean Claudia Pinza? Freeman: Yeah. Levy: Yeah, she she
was at Duquesne for a number of years. Freeman: Okay. Levy: Yeah.
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Freeman: Well, that's where that's where Demarius[?] went to study. But,
you see, she hasn't been called about to do anything else, you know? But,
uh, we're very proud of her, too. Um, let me see. Now, that takes care of
that. I certainly wanted to let you know about that. Um. Oh, here's another
picture. I look different than I do now. Uh, Music and Art Club musical.
Miss Gladys Weems and I, we did a piano and organ recital that particular
Sunday afternoon, and that was. That's a picture I [?]. Oh, yeah. I don't
know where Gladys is now. She had moved to California and her husband died.
Uh, not California, Florida. I don't know where she is now. I don't know
whether she's still down there or not.
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Levy: Back down again. You're telling me that you're the only Black
organist. Freeman: That I know of. Levy: Right. Freeman: In Pittsburgh
that's the organist director in charge of music at Saint Peter's
Evangelical and Reformed Church, United Church of Christ. Levy: Where is
that located?
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Freeman: Uh, in Penn Circle East, 238 Penn Circle East. You know, that
church is, um, is, uh, 100 years, 150 years old as far as the congregation.
The church building is 100 years old. It's a landmark, you know. Levy: Yes.
Freeman: And when the first Renaissance were they wanted to tear that down,
the Second Renaissance, but they didn't. You know, those people held on.
It's a small congregation now because most of the people have died out. We
don't have a choir there. The music repertoire there is like this. But I
managed to keep, uh, we have, uh, about five different soloists that I
interchange every Sunday morning. They're responsible for the music, the
hymns and, um, solo music. I'll give you a program to take with you. Levy:
Alright. Freeman: Mhm. So, um, uh, this is my anniversary month. Seven
years.
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Levy: Oh, that's wonderful.
Freeman: Um, and they're very nice to me. They're, they're very, very
nice. Um, right now they have a lay minister. Uh, Mark Yerder[?]. Do you
know him? He's from up in. I think he went to Geneva College, but he works
up at the at the VA up here, and he went to theological seminary. You know,
I think he's getting all of his credits together so he can be a
full-fledged minister there. So I'll give you one of those programs. Uh.
Then let's see. I have been organist at Pittsburgh, some of Pittsburgh's
largest black churches. Um, in 1955, I was organist at Grace Presbyterian
Church. Uh, Reverend Tolliver was the minister there then. And Reverend
George came a little later after him. Um, Central Baptist Church. I used to
play at a lot, but I wasn't organist there. But Ebenezer Baptist Church Dr.
James B. Casey was the organist, was the minister there. And Carrone
Baptist Church on in Homewood. Dr. Porter Phillips was the minister. So
I've had, you know.
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Levy: I'd say you have a very broad background.
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Freeman: Plus all the other things that I've done, I've been judges for
judges for, uh, this professional women's competition, uh, black teenage
pageant. Just talking to Jean Bryant last night. She's getting ready to
start it again. And all the numerous things that have done as far as
accompanying concerts, banquets or whatever, you know, you don't begin to
tell all the things you did because you just can't remember them all. Well,
and here's something else you might like to look at. This is lifestyle.
That's that expedition over there. It was over on October the 20th, so it's
not there for you to see anymore. That's one of Pittsburgh's fine artist
there.
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Levy: Oh, I see. Freeman: [?] Peterson.
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Levy: Oh, this is a program for an art exhibit in the Frick Fine Arts
Building in August of 1991, called Lifestyle. You say Dr. Hill formed a.
Freeman: Choir. Levy: group called. Freeman: The Sounds of Heritage. And
they specialize in the performance of the Negro spiritual only. The
heritage. Levy: And they're still they're still [?]?
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Freeman: Yes, they still are involved. Dr. Hill is not with the choir now
for his own reasons, but they still have a director who is carrying the
choir through concert performances. Mhm. So that's a that's that choirs
ten years old now and I traveled with them. Um, most of the music was
done.
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Levy: Do you are you involved with that group?
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Freeman: Not now, no. Um, the spiritual sounds. Well, it sounds better a
cappella. And that's. He likes them. Things done a cappella. So I used to
stand up in the tenor line, you know, and. But there were times when we
needed pitches, you know, or something like that. Then I was the official
accompanist for that. Mhm. But the choir specializes in the. Production of
the spiritual only. But he is the founder.
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Levy: How old is doctor?
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Freeman: He's got to be middle 50s. Middle 50s. I think he had a birthday
this past August. Yeah, he's somewhere in the middle 50s. He's, um. He's,
uh, teaches. He teaches at Milliones[?] Elementary School now. I think he's
a, uh, teacher clinician there. And he was, uh, teacher clinician at
Schenley High School before going there. I work with him with another group
now. Um, I'm not saying too much about it because they haven't made their
debut yet, you know? But he has another group. Uh huh. And this choir will
do differently. They'll do from the the mass down, you know, the anthems,
the contemporary spirituals. And he's not too much involved in gospel
liturgy. Not too much, you know. But he's written a few things that he.
Will present with the choir whenever they come out. I know they have some
things together.
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Levy: Well, this has been a marvelous interview.
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Freeman: Well, thank you very much.
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Levy: It gave us a real insight into, I think, a portion of the community
that unfortunately, is not really most people are not aware of the the
depth and the breadth of of the musical experience of the African American
outside of the usual things that people associate with. Freeman: Sure.
Levy: And, uh, uh, not only have you given us a marvelous interview, but
you certainly opened up the door to more, more understanding of this. I
want to thank you very much.
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Freeman: Well, I appreciate your coming, really I do.
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Levy: It's my pleasure. I, uh, I'm sure we'll be consulting you many
times.
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Freeman: Oh, I'll be glad to help you anytime.
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Levy: Try to reconstruct the this experience. Yes. Thank you again.
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Freeman: You're quite welcome. And I do want to say that my interest in
the Friends of Music library started with Anna Be with Anna Perlo[?]. Levy:
Perlo. Freeman: She introduced me to [?] and had me to come as a member. I
taught at the Anna B. Heldman Center before it was the new Hill House. So
piano there and she was the director of the of the music school. So my
connection with the Friends of Music is very dear to me, you know, to I the
fellowship and being amongst those persons who are my peers.
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Levy: Peers. And they're selfless, they're doing something worthwhile.
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Freeman: Right, right. Sure. So I've maintained my status there and I hope
that it will continue, you know. Mhm. All right. Are you sure you don't.
