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Maurice Levy: Women again?
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Peggy Pierce Freeman: Yeah. All women again. Uh huh.
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Levy: And the full range. First and second soprano. And the first and
second altos. How large was that choir about?
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Freeman: Oh, I would say at one time, maybe. Uh, ballpark figure 30
women.
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Levy: 30? Uh, how about the, uh, the Treble Clef Choir? About the same
size?
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Freeman: About the same size. Mhm.
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Levy: Well, that's. That's manageable.
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Freeman: Yes, yes.
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Levy: Get too big. I guess it's pretty hard to.
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Freeman: To manage.
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Levy: Yes.
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Freeman: That's right. And see, these people, all of these people become
intertwined with each thing. That's everything that's going on in the city.
You see, as far as music is concerned, if they wanted to be, you know, the
it was another production of the Messiah. Maybe some people came from that
or. Levy: Im sure people people had membership in several of these
musical groups. Freeman: Right.
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Levy: It was sort of a cross-pollination.
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Freeman: Right. Levy: Right. Freeman: Yes. Levy: Right, right. Freeman.
And a Madam, um, Johnson, being a Minister of Music at Central, she used to
give the Messiah down there just about every, every year, and I would I
didn't belong to Central. My husband did. He was born and raised in
Central. But I was there so much that people began to think, well, I did
belong there. But if she had had the Messiah, I would always be on one
instrument, you know, piano or whatever, you know. And so that's I that has
been a part of me that I miss every Christmas if I don't play the Messiah,
of course, at my church where I am director, I can always insert it with
our solos and whatnot. But I mean, for the production, the total
production, you know.
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Levy: Right. The choir and they run a small orchestra?
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Freeman: Well, no, just always organ, piano, organ and piano. And that
makes a nice combination. You know.
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Levy: I'm sure the cost of the orchestra is prohibitive.
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Freeman: Right? You couldn't possibly do it. Yes, but what I'm trying to
get at, Mr. Levy, is that, um, in the Black community, we have had cultural
class to let you know that these kind of things did go on music wise.
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Levy: That's right. Well, some of us knew about it, but very few people
do.
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Freeman: That's right.
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Levy: We hope to be able to at least spread, if I can use the term, the
gospel.
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Freeman: That's it. That's a good word
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Levy: About the fact that there were there was a significant group of
people in the in the Black community who who felt that in addition to their
own heritage.
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Freeman: Yes.
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Levy: They wanted to participate in, in the. Freeman: Western style music.
Levy: The Western, uh, uh, heritage also. Freeman: Right. Levy: Even
though, uh, of the uh, at least as much as the people who, uh, who
themselves were in the majority.
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Freeman: Very, very few that that's it. Exactly.
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Levy: Now, the the, uh. The Music and Art club. What kind of group?
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Freeman: Okay. The Music and Art club. Actually came out of. A formation
of an auxiliary group to help the opera company. That Mrs. George, Mrs.
Dawson founded. These ladies were supposed to um present fundraising
affairs. Uh, the lady who was in charge sort of, kind of deviated from that
purpose. Later years, the name was changed from the auxiliary branch of the
National Negro Opera Company to the Music and Art Club of Pittsburgh, and
at that time. Mrs. Johnson was a peace-loving person and in order to
dispel. The little bit of ruffling of attitudes. She asked the ladies to
name the name, the club, the Music and Art Club of Pittsburgh. You see how
things begin to get intertwined, and that's what it was. Now, naturally,
she took her buddy with her. I was there, I was there, and I used to be
their program chairperson and arrange all the program for the year. And the
funny thing about it, when the, um, Three Rivers Art Festival started. No
one knows this too. I don't know whether it's in the archives of Pittsburgh
or not. They had a lot of volunteer persons. To be done at the Point. I was
in charge one time. Of all the artwork that was on that side by Bell
Telephone. We had artists in the organization. When you go down the hall,
you'll see a piece of artwork on the wall with my husband's cousin. He was
an artist. He graduated from Ivy School of Art. Down downstairs. But he had
stuff in in the, um. Festival. The late Ida Herbert, who just died. Had
material in the art festival and Berkeley. Sawyer, who is um, resident
artist over at um um CAPA High, had artwork in the festival. What I'm
really trying to say is, Mr. Levy, that this Music and Art Club was a part
of the beginning of the Three Rivers Art Festival. Three Rivers Art
Festival, we were a part of it. And that went on for maybe 3 or 4 years.
That's taking a ballpark guess. And of course, you know the civic. The
festival has grown to the magnitude that it is. But the Music and Art club
did participate.
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Levy: How many members did the Music and Art Club have?
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Freeman: Okay. Around about that time, or maybe a ballpark number of about
20 people we're thinking about, uh, maybe more than that. Um, now the Music
and Art Club. See, as I said, Mrs. Doris Johnson had tangents. To do other
things. I'm going to, if you don't mind, if you want me to revert back to,
oh, yes, the Music and Art Club. Another thing they did, they would give
scholarships. We would have like a Sunday afternoon tea. Okay. And you'd be
a patron for me for a dollar. Okay. And, um, if I'm a member, if I sold
$100 worth of, uh, if I'm a member, if I sold $100 worth of patrons, or if
I was a performer and I sold $100 worth of patrons, the club would give you
$50 back. That's the way we did. Now, here's a program that you might look
at. Now that was another plus sign for Marlena Johnson. She brought that
idea. To the group, and that's what they did. And we did that for, oh, I
guess ten, 10 or 15 years. Music and Art Club still is in existence. I
don't participate with them for the simple reason that, you know, I think
there's some times you get to the place where you've done all you can do
for a group, and so it's best to bow out.
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Levy: Time for the new generation.
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Freeman: Right?
Levy: Right. They have new ideas and.
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Freeman: Right. But the only thing about it was Mr. Levy. See, in that
group you only had 2 or 3 musicians. The other people were lovers of the
art, so they don't know how to structure like you do. See they don't know
how to structure. And I began to see that there was a little bit of, you
know, uneasiness in, in, in presenting a lot of things. So I just sort of
kind of bowed out. They still like the hold my name, you know, for because
you have to pay, you have to pay, uh, um, state tax for every head in a
club that's in a national organization. And they are part of the
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Levy: Part of a national.
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Freeman: Yeah, it's part of the music, the part of the Federation of
Women's Clubs of Pennsylvania.
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Levy: Oh okay.
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Freeman: So you have to pay a head tax for everybody in there, you know.
So I would send them that, you know, but, um, I'm not a member as active,
you know, because it's new thoughts and, and I guess I'm a strong leader
and you can't always. Come forth with all what you want to do, but it was a
kind of a group that.
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Levy: Do you know who the who would be the person that would be that maybe
I could contact or we can have a continuity would take yours. Freeman: Mhm.
Levy: Uh, who would be a good person?
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Freeman: Her name is Mrs. Eleanor Mann and she lives on Wilkinsburg
Avenue. I have to get the telephone number out of there.
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Levy: We could get that later. Eleanor Mann. Wilkinsburg Avenue?
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Freeman: Yes. In Wilkinsburg. Uh huh. Now. They're not doing too much now.
Uh, but they are still are still a group. Mhm. They are still a group. But
my connection with them goes back to the times when it was that kind of
active.
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Levy: I'm sure I'm sure it's evolved into something else. The emphasis is
different which is what happens as the world moves along.
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Freeman: This is true. This is very true. I'm trying to see who it was we,
um, presented at this particular time. Um. Oh, uh, Annabel Royston,
violinist, violist, Edna Mae Taylor, lyrical, dramatic soprano Randall
Kemp, who's dead now. Tenor, and Harriet Hargus, now Harriet. She's uh
Elfinwild Presbyterian church. She was the organist and, uh, she was
presented as a part of the program. And I was the accompanist for these
soloists here. So there's always been a connection between both communities
in all the things that we have been doing. You know, there's been all
totally all black. It's been had connection between. I wanted to mention
also with, uh, talking about Mrs. Dawson. Um. Harvey Gaul. He was her dear
friend. And besides the opera company, Mrs. Dawson. Before the opera
company she had an award-winning choir. An award-winning choir that
participated in the. Choir competitions at Flagstaff Hill. Remember that?
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Levy: Uh, dimly.
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Freeman: Uh, there should be a picture in here of the choir. And, um, here
is her choir. Here it is. Now, that was her own personal choir. That has,
they. Some of them were in the opera, but that was her own personal choir
that rehearsed every week and gave concerts. Even in Carnegie Music Hall. I
played um Chopin's E-flat Prelude when I was 17, in Carnegie Music Hall one
one year, when they had their annual concert in Carnegie Music Hall. That
was her choir, her own choir. And it was an award-winning choir.
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Levy: It's of course, this is both male and female.
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Freeman: Yes. Uh huh. Yes.
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Levy: So it's a full, full range choir?
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Freeman: Right, right.
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Levy: And their, uh, their uh, repertory was. Freeman: Was, uh, the
classics and spirituals. Right. And, um, I think on this picture. If I'm
remembering, there's only about six of these ladies still living. And I
think all of the men. Except maybe three have passed away. Now this is
going back.
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Levy: 1942.
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Freeman: When this picture was taken.
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Levy: Were talking 49 years ago. Almost 50 years ago.
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Freeman: And this was a good choir. It's too bad that at those times we
didn't have records, you know? Let's see. All that music is lost. You'll
never hear it again. You see,
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Levy: It's true.
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Freeman: Because we didn't have taping and all of that. But this was one
of the finest. And you see the appearance there, States Department. And she
was a. Levy: Very dignified. Freeman: Oh yes. And she was deaf on looking
good. You know, the ladies had to have the proper dresses and the men had
to. Levy: Had to appear in public. Freeman: Oh, sure. You got to look good,
you know. So I was glad I brought that out, too, because she did have a
problem. And as I said, Harvey Gaul was her dearest friend. You know, he he
was behind her and everything she did.
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Levy: That's a that's a high recommendation because he hes certainly
well known and still known.
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Freeman: Sure, sure, sure.
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Levy: Uh. In addition to the, you are also been active in the Pittsburgh
Piano Teachers Association?
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Freeman: Yes, I've been a member since about 1963 or 4. I've been a board
member of. Let me see. Up until about two years ago, I was the official
accompanist for six years, which meant that on our devotions I would be the
accompanist. Then, when we would go to conventions in Pennsylvania, I was
accompanist. So I did have I am still a member. I don't teach any more
students, but I because I don't like I never was tied down. And since I've
been by myself, I don't like to be. I go at my own leisure. I don't want to
come home. I got a lesson at 6:00. I got to prepare a recital. I got to
prepare a party.
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Levy: You prize your freedom.
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Freeman: Sure, sure, I do what I. What I like, you know, and the kids are
not here, and, uh, I like that, too. Just so they call. Sure. But I'm
getting back to PPTA. I adore that group. And, um, they were very kind to
me. Um, last. Let me see. Was it 1990? Yes. May of 1990. I was a
chairperson for the regional conference of the National Association of
Negro Musicians. I want to talk to you about that.
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Levy: Right.
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Freeman: Um, at Duquesne University with a lot of hard work. A lot of hard
work And the Piano Teachers Association. I was surprised, uh, Sue Barnhart.
Came and. Presented me with some roses, you know, and nice words. So I
really appreciate the Piano Teachers Association. Um, since Volkweins
moved, some of us have a little difficult time getting out there. Um, I
don't like to miss meetings, but I missed the last couple of meetings
because the person who did take us wasnt going because I don't drive, you
see. But, um, I think the ladies there are very fine, and I, I've always
tried to, uh, you know, keep up a standard with them. Uh, last was it this
year? Oh, yes. We had in May, we had, um. A program of women composers. And
I had researched some work on music of Florence Price. And I played that
day, you know, just sketched things for them so they could be aware they
didn't know of such persons as Florence Price. You see. So, um, my
connection with the PTA is very strong, you know, and I enjoy it very much.
Mhm. Then I belong to American Guild of Organists. Um, Mary Louise Wright
over First Baptist Church. Um. Through Maudelena Johnson recommended that I
be join that. That was in 60s. And I cherished that because I'm not. I'm
just there to learn and to fellowship. And I try to go to the meetings when
it's nearby, you know, and I keep up my membership, you know, and I think
we all ought to be a part that all the community, some parts of the
community should always be a part of everything that's going on. If I'm
saying that rather subtly.
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Levy: That's a common interest in all churches, whether it's African
American. Freeman: Or whatever. Levy: Or Catholic or whatever, or
synagogues or they all. Freeman: Are there. Levy: I'm sure they are all
there. They share some common interest.
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Levy: Right?
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Freeman: Right.
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Freeman: Right. And I learned a lot. You learn a lot. You know, I just sit
there and I don't try to. You know, involve myself in what's going on with
it was, with playing this and playing the other. I'm not interested in
that. Just so they know I'm there and I pay my money for my meal and enjoy
and I leave, you see what I'm saying? And there's been at times, though,
that I have been asked to go substitute. I've substituted in Wilkinsburg at
the Methodist Church, Mifflin Avenue Methodist Church out there several
times, you know. So that has brought reward to me, the, um, church. That's
right at the corner now, what is it? The Wayland Presbyterian Church[?],
right at the corner about, um, to Braddock and, um, Braddock and Penn
Avenue. I've substituted there. So my rewards out of it you know has been
very, very good. I'll never forget that church because the organ was up,
you know, way up in front of you. Everything is up. Have you ever been in
there?
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Levy: No.
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Freeman: It's a great church.
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Levy: I've heard of the church. I've had some musical events there.
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Freeman: Right.
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Levy: I've seen the name there.
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Freeman: A couple of years ago they had started a jazz series there. I
don't know what happened to that. Like they'd have like jazz series now.
Like they have that over in Emmanuel. I don't know whether it's Emmanuel
Baptist or Emmanuel Presbyterian over in the North Side.
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Levy: Emmanuel Lutheran.
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Freeman: Emmanuel Lutheran, they have that.
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Levy: On North Avenue.
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Freeman: Right. They have a jazz. Levy: They have a jazz service. Yes. On
weekends. Yeah. I saw it in the paper last week. Of course. That's,
that's.
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Freeman: I'd like to go sometime if I'm with someone you know.
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Levy: Marvelous. Sure. Well of course that's, uh, that's the church that
was designed by the man who designed the county courthouse. Henry
Richardson.
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Freeman: Oh.
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Levy: Very famous, very famous.
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Freeman: My my my, that's that's that's gorgeous. I. When I think of, you
know, all the buildings and beautiful things that we have here in
Pittsburgh and and getting back to that moss again, I sometimes when I go,
when I'm going out there and I don't want to even look over my shoulder at
that. All right. Now what else? Oh, I said I will I'll talk to you about.
The National Negro Opera Company. National. See these national words I
belong to three things that are national. The National Association of Negro
Musicians. All right. Uh, that organization is was founded in 1919. And
recently someone who is a librarian had told me that they discovered. That
prior to 1919. In Pennsylvania. Uh, there had started a little group, the
National Negro Opera Company. But we'll take the 1919 year as its real
beginning, and it is an active organization. I'm going to get you a book. I
didn't go to the convention this year. They were in Chicago, which is the.
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Levy: Sorry. Okay. 1986. Freeman: In 1986, I had been talking with a
several musicians here, and prior to Professor Davis's death, we had been
talking about this, but we never had a chance to get it started. In 1941,
the madam was Madam Dawson was national president of the the association,
and that was the year that they were here in convention. Now we had a
little they had the group, uh, the function for a little while, but it soon
died out. So in our conversations with Professor Davis and some of us, they
said we need to restart the the National Association branch here again. So
I proceeded to do just that, and I asked for the permission of the family
to name the, uh. branch, the Madam Mary Cardwell Dawson branch. And in
keeping with the the national office in Chicago with the executive
secretary, back and forth, telephone calls, writing, whatnot. We formed our
constitution, which was approved by the National. And then I went to to New
Orleans in 1987 with the convention, and I brought back the charter. For
the Mary Cardwell Dawson Branch.
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Levy: 1987.
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Freeman: 1987. And it is alive yet. Now, you know, in some organizations,
Mr. Levy, you know, the creeps into it, some very unpleasant situations.
And I'm not in an administrative capacity now like I was at one time. I
still pay my dues, but I don't participate in the doings of the of the
branch. But the branch is recognized in the National Association of Negro
Musicians. Now, in that convention time, you have the finest of all of the
musicians all over the country coming together some 5000 or so and
presenting music performances. Most of them are heads of music departments,
you know, have been performers themselves. Uh, on the night of the first
mass meeting night, when the conveners come the first Sunday, that
particular city will put out its red carpet, you know, for for the
conveners who are there. Uh, we give scholarships each year. There are five
regions in the association, and every region has presents a scholarship
come in competition. Now, whoever wins, for instance, in this competition
in the eastern region, which goes from Virginia down to from Massachusetts,
Virginia will compete at the next year's convention with the other four
competitors out of the other four regions. Now they go around the gauntlet
of the of instruments one year. It may be like this year it was voice. Next
year it's going to be strings. And if you look in the back there you'll see
an application. There should be somewhere back in there. Uh, where? Excuse
me. The music that they have to play is designated for them. They have to
play a music masters and music composition of a Black composer. That's a
must. Um, uh, two years ago, it was, um, it was. Let me see what the, um,
brass the year before that was wind instruments. The year before that was
organ. Oh, yes. I went to California in 1987, and the competition that year
was in, um, Oregon. And a young man from, uh, I think he was from New York
won the competition. So that's an organization that, um, William Warfield.
Uh, was the president until last year. The president can serve six years.
And now, um, the president is Doctor Willis Patterson of the University of
Michigan. Now, who is the present president. So that's an organization
that's, um, doing an awful lot for perpetuating the music of the, uh,
heritage of of our race. Um, the purposes are listed in the front here. Um,
the one of the purposes, rather, is listed here, which you can see and read
for yourself. Yeah. That's the three. Mhm.
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Levy: Yep. To assist in maintaining a world in which all people live in
peace and harmony. Well, if you don't have to go past the first line,
that's. That's enough. All the others. Everything else is redundant.
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Freeman: Right, right.
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Levy: But the rest of them, of course, are worthwhile.
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Freeman: Of course, of course.
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Levy: Here's an interesting one to resist the desecration of Negro
spirituals. I think that's a marvelous line.
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Freeman: Yes it is, yes it is, yes it is.
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Levy: There's a lot in that sentence.
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Freeman: Oh, yes. And do you know, Mr. Levy, just just last week I was
listening and one of the advertisements was. Talking about the wasted, you
know, the recycling of the waste that we have. And the girl was singing,
he's got the whole world in his hand. And it was connected with recycling
of trash. I said to myself, I need to write that station because the
meaning is gone altogether. It's a sacred meaning.
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Levy: Well they use Mozart to sell toothpaste.
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Freeman: Yes. See? These are the kind of things that shouldn't happen. And
I sometimes wonder where our our music and where our music people are and
don't hear these things. I guess they don't have time to be listening to to
them, but they do happen, you know, they do happen. But anyhow, you see
what? What the.
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Levy: I'd certainly like to have a copy of this for them.
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Freeman: All right. I'll, I'll talk to owner and see if she can send
mailed one to you.
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Levy: A copy to the library, and we really ought to have a file of all of
this if it isn't there. There very well may be one, but.
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Freeman: I hardly think so.
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Levy: Well, anything that you can provide us with, we will set up a file.
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Freeman: All right.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:11.000
Levy: If we don't, I know we have some. I have, uh, I left it at home. I,
we had a few references in the Pittsburgh file on the National Negro Music
Company. There was a picture of Mrs. Cardwell Dawson.
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Freeman: Oh, yes.
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Levy: But it was it was just a clipping from the newspaper, which is all
we can do up there. You know, we can't we can't file things that people
don't give it to us.
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.000
Freeman: This is true.
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:30.000
Levy: So if you would do that, I think it would be a it would be the kind
of thing when we do have, uh, African-American youngsters come in and we
get them from the public schools.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.000
Freeman: Yes.
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:41.000
Levy: That we could take them to the file and show them that, that their
culture is a lot broader than just rock and roll and, and. Freeman: And
jazz. Levy: And contemporary music.
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.000
Freeman: Yes.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Levy: I mean, those are, you know, they're worthwhile, uh, cultural
things. But the the African Americans have been very obviously, as I can
see here, have been a, uh, an integral part of presenting the Western music
and the Western tradition.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:05.000
Freeman: Right, right. Well, I certainly will get in touch with them, uh,
Ona Campbell, because she's the executive secretary and.
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:07.000
Levy: Shes executive secretary of what, the uh?
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Freeman: Of the of the National Association of Negro Musicians in
Chicago.
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:11.000
Levy: Oh, in Chicago.
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.000
Freeman: Oh, she's in Chicago. Yes.
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:19.000
Levy: Who's the local?
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:40.000
Levy: At this point, there was an inadvertent mechanical error made in
using the cassette recorder it for it begins again in a very few seconds.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.000
Levy: Well I appreciate what you're saying.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:30:11.000
Freeman: Sure. Now let's see. Something else I want to show you. You know,
if I start telling you about all the things I've done. But I think that
this is important. Um. See this? Excuse me. Uh, Nathaniel Johnson was the
program director at the Kaufmann Program Center of Hill House. Some several
years back, maybe 6 or 7 years. And I was down there as a part of the music
department, and we talked about having a panorama of the arts. And I, uh,
sanctioned this with Mr. Johnson, and he approved of it. And I got a
committee to come with me, and we presented for six years. For five years,
a [?] of the arts, and it did just that. We had the city's best artists,
had their, uh, artwork hung in the Kauffman Center. Uh, 12:30. It was
always on. It's always on a Sunday. Uh, at 12:30, we would have a worship
service. This was out in the amphitheater between Kaufmann's Program Center
and Hill House. There's a large area there where they had beautiful chairs.
We had a stage. I had, uh, organ, a piano. And as you can see from that
program, I produced that program. I produced that program by getting in
touch with these people and on an hourly basis, we had music, choirs,
dancers, soloists. It was just a marvelous occasion for five years. We are
thinking about reviving that at the Hill House now. Uh, maybe this year. A
lot of people have asked me why, oh that was such a lovely thing. Why
haven't you done it? Well, it's an awful lot of work in first place, but it
we involved a lot of groups. The National Council of Negro Women used to
come and sell, um, sweet potato pies, which was the legacy of Mary McLeod
Bethune. That's how she built the organization. Okay. Levy: Sure. Freeman:
Chi Eta Phi Sorority used to come and give free blood pressure tests. The
girls just loved to come. They were all nurses. Okay, the Alma Illery
Center down here.
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:35.000
Levy: Medical center.
Freeman: Right. They used to have a booth for sickle cell, would, you
know, sickle cell is. Levy: Sure. Freeman: Prevalent amongst the Black
race. All of this happened on a Sunday afternoon and we were very blessed.
Very blessed. We never had a rainy Sunday. Sunday. I think the good Lord
must have been really shining on us.
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:38.000
Levy: He had some kind of inside phone number there.
00:30:38.000 --> 00:31:00.000
Freeman: Yes, we must have. And we would start at 12:00 in the afternoon
and go till 8:30. You know, in the summertime in June it's still light at
8:30. So we're thinking about doing that maybe again now this logo here.
And I'm going to give a little plug for my great nephew. He's an artist.
And he did this. Levy: He did that? Freeman: Um-hum.
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.000
Levy: Can we have copies of this too?
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Freeman: Sure. I'll get you. I've got three or 4 or 5 upstairs and I'll
try to get you another one. This. I don't want to give up the ones that I
have.
00:31:11.000 --> 00:32:11.000
Levy: Okay.
