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Maurice Levy: This is Maurice Levy speaking to Peggy Freeman for the Oral
History of Music in Pittsburgh project. It's November the 8th, 1991. What
is your, uh, first, uh, contact with music?
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Peggy Pierce Freeman: Well, when I was about 3 or 4 years old, I think my
family noticed that I had, um, inclinations toward music, as we always had
a piano in my home. Uh, my mother was an amateur professional in that she
had, uh, had some music training, and she, um, had played for church groups
in, in the South even before coming to Pittsburgh. And she was organist at
the church that I was baptized in years ago. My father was not a musician,
but he liked music. We had an old player piano, and on Sundays, mother and
I would get to church and my dad wouldn't get there all the time, but we'd
be coming up the street and you'd just hear this player player piano just
just to go on, you know? But I think all of those things helped to, uh,
keep the seed for music in my, in myself. And, and then my mother gave me
some beginning basics, of course. And then after, uh oh, maybe 7 or 8
years, I started to study with the late Madame Mary Cardwell Dawson, who
was one of Pittsburgh's black, uh, uh, let's say impresario of the opera
and music. She was a teacher, a conductor. She was a graduate of New
England Conservatory and had a school, Cardwell Dawson School of Music in
East Liberty, um, during the 30s, and then she moved to the school to Apple
Avenue. Uh, later in later years. Um, so that has been the basis of my
piano beginning.
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Freeman: I also used to take lessons at school. I took a little girl to
school who the children sort of annoyed when she would go to school, and
her father asked me to take her to school, and I got $0.75 a week for
taking her to school, and I paid for lessons at Crescent School with Miss
Allison. That's before I studied with Mary Cardwell Dawson. And, uh. From
that point, I had an older sister who lived in Boston, Massachusetts, and I
studied um, piano at the Anna B. Gardner, Anna Bobbitt Gardner School of
Music called the Academy of Music on Claremont Street in Boston,
Massachusetts, and she found that I had an awful lot of talent, and I
studied with her for the short time I was there. Then I received, um, help
to go to, um, Carnegie Mellon. At that time, it was Carnegie Institute of
Technology and, um. My teacher, Mrs. Dawson, stayed with me all day there
so I could pass the [?]. And I was one of the, one of the only black women
in the school, daytime school curriculum. The other person was Lawrence
Mellon. I don't know whether anybody remembers him around here. His father
was a doctor, but he was an exceptional musician. And he later years went
to New York. I guess he's still alive there, but that's the basis of my.
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Levy: So that's your background?
Freeman: That's my music background from its very beginning.
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Levy: Okay. Uh, what, uh, you you've been, uh, associated with a number of
musical organizations, and you mentioned some of them to me. Let's start
first with the National Negro Opera Company. What is your experience with
that? And what do you remember?
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Freeman: All right. Um, in 19. Oh, I guess 39 or 40. Uh, Madame Dawson was
the, uh, national president of the National Association of Negro Musicians,
which is, by the way, a 72 or 73 year old organization. It's the oldest
organization of its kind in the world. It was founded in 1919. Um. Madame
Dawson had the idea at that time to get into opera. She had had opera
instruction from some of the leading opera conductors in New York and
Boston, and she wanted to make sure that the African American had an
opportunity to sing opera. And when we I mean on a on a large scale, um,
when we think of Aida. Uh, we have to think of Aida as an opera. That
Verdi. Uh, took time to go, uh, to the end of the African continent and,
um, get the Moorish and the Egyptian culture together. And this inspired
him to write the opera Aida. And of course it's Egyptian. And of course,
out of that comes the fact that the Afro-American stems from that legacy.
Um, Madame Dawson started the opera company in the home on 7101 Apple
Avenue, which is just five minutes away from where this house is.
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Levy: It's in Homewood-Brushton.
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Freeman: Yeah. I'm going to show you. Yes, sometime. It's still there.
It's of course she's not there now. She left, uh, Pittsburgh in about 48 or
49. Her husband, Mr. Dawson, was a professional electrician, a registered
electrician. And at that time the government was involving people of that
sort in government works in Washington. So she moved to Washington, DC and
continued the opera company. In fact, the the papers for the opera company
have been incorporated, and they are in the Cumberland, uh, Maryland, um, I
guess county house. I think anybody can at this point. Now go and still see
them there. Um, in in putting together the opera company, there were quite
a few singers, you know, that had done concert work, had been in Europe and
whatnot. I could name, um, Lillian Evanti. I could name, um, um. Robert
McFerrin. Robert McFerrin. The contemporary person. Uh, as the son of
Robert McFerrin, who sang in Aida in Pittsburgh.
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Levy: You mean the young man who is such a versatile musician.
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Freeman: Right. His father.
Levy: Jazz singing and all the things that he does? Classical and jazz.
Freeman: Yes. Levy: Classical and jazz.
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Freeman: Well, his his father. Levy: Really? Freeman: Was the one who was
here. I can show you pictures of this.
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Levy: He was here in Pittsburgh?
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Freeman: He was here in Pittsburgh.
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Levy: But Bobby McFerrin was not. Was not a Pittsburgher.
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Freeman: No, no, no.
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Levy: He didn't grow up here, did he?
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Freeman: No, no, no, no. His father was the one who was involved in the
opera company. Now I'm going to let you see this, Mr. Levy, so that you can
see what there it's the documentation of the whole opera scene. And Madame
was very fortunate before she died in 1959. That book was it's really a
book, but somebody xeroxed it and put it in sections for me. Um, before she
died, she put that book together and you will find in there, uh, critics,
uh, uh, Fred Lissfelt, Pittsburgher, Ralph Lewando, a Pittsburgher, who had
written up criticisms of the opera company and all of the people who
participated in the choruses out of Pittsburgh, New York, Boston. No, not
not Boston, New Jersey, uh, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, Chicago. Now
Julia Ray had been an opera star and was I think her picture should be
somewhere along in there, somewhere where she was the Aida in the opera. I
as I said, this is a sort of a book that's sort of been taken apart because
it has been xeroxed. But I keep one book that I will not let anyone have,
and in it is the is the complete story all put together.
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Levy: Do we have a copy of this?.
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Freeman: No you don't. And I'm going to make sure that you do get that
copy.
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Levy: You don't want to take it out of your hands. Come to the library and
we'll xerox it there. And then then it wont be lost. Why don't you do
that?
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Freeman: I'll do that. I'll do that for you.
Levy: We'll make a file for it.
Freeman: Sure.
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Levy: Really glad to have that file.
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Freeman: All right. Now, do you see here that. See what I did here? You
know, I was in that, um. Uh, rally that they had for Syria Mosque. Uh, Mr.
[?], out of Councilman Ferlo's office, made contact with me, or I made
contact by calling, and he continued to contact and called me and had me to
come down. And on that evening, on the 3rd of September, they had that
rally in front of Syria Mosque.
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Levy: For the people that are listening to the tape that we can review and
say that the Syria Mosque was threatened to be demolished and a group of
people met,
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Freeman: Right.
Levy: Tried to save it. Unfortunately, it was not successful, but it did.
There was an organization formed.
Freeman: Right.
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Levy: And I think they're still in in force, even though that the Mosque
is just about completely.
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Freeman: Yeah they are. They're trying to make it a landmark. Put a marker
there. But Aida was given there. Aida was given there. I remember when and
La Traviata twice. I remember when, you know, in, um, it was, um. When was
it? Easter this year was March 31st. Was it, was it March 31st? Okay. This
was in the press papers. I took this out of the paper so as to remember
what was said. Now, the chronological review of events, Mr. Levy, there
aren't there isn't a mention of the National Negro Opera Company. I don't
know how that happened.
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Levy: That's certainly a terrible oversight. Freeman: Yes. Levy: Terrible
oversight.
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Freeman: And I do believe I met Mr. King. What's his name on here, wrote
this. He was at the rally that evening. And he's a very gentle man, a very
kind man. And I think, um, when I mentioned it to him, if he was the right
one, I think he said he didn't. He didn't know about it or it hadn't been
told to him or something or other. But anyhow, there is the documentation
in there.
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Levy: The chronology there.
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Freeman: Right.
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Levy: The Peter King article of March 31st, 1991.
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Freeman: I made sure. Yeah, I made sure that I would keep that so I can
refer back and forth to that. Um, people here might remember Angelo Gatto.
Angelo Gatto was, um, the conductor or director of the Savoyards. Remember,
the Savoyards?
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Levy: Theyre still around. Freeman: Okay, okay. Levy: They still sing
Gilbert and Sullivan. Freeman: Okay. Levy: Twice a year.
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Freeman: All right. Well, he conducted La Traviata. Aida was done by, uh,
a conductor, um, Maestro Frederick Vajda from New York. He's dead now, but
I think the Madame got in touch with him because she had connections. And
she went into New York and of course, looking for a conductor or whichever
way she did it, his name surfaced. And that's why he was the person who did
the first opera. As you came up the hall, Mr. Levy, when you go back down,
I want you to look at the picture there. That picture was made in 1940. Go
and look at it right now, if you will.
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Levy: With the trombone?
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Freeman: Yeah. Huh? No no no no no. That. No, the one the big picture. The
big picture. There is, um, scenes from La Traviata in 1944.
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Levy: All right, let me turn this off for a second. I'll go take a look.
So we just saw the more or less summary of the January 1944 performance of
La Traviata.
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Freeman: Right, right, uh huh. And, um, as I said, uh, Angelo Gatto, uh,
did the conducting. He came back, he did it twice. And then we did The
Ordering of Moses. Now, The Ordering of Moses is a religious cantata, um,
uh, written by R. Nathaniel Dett. I know you've heard of him. Uh, it's
about the ordering that Moses got to go down into Egypt land, and the
Madame took it and staged it. Costumed it and staged it. And that was given
in the.
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Levy: Madame Cardwell Dawson?
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Freeman: Yes, yes it was. This was done in Syria Mosque. As well as in
other, uh, opera houses in Chicago and in New York and around. Um. It was a
very you know, it was a very nervy situation because as we know, um, opera
is, is not, uh, that's what's the word we want to use?
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Levy: It's certainly not a popular thing, even for people, uh, for the
general public.
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Freeman: Right, right.
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Levy: And 1% or 2% of the people.
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Freeman: This is true. And the money for it comes from at that time was
she'd probably born 50 years too soon. Maybe now, maybe with the, the, the
arts councils and maybe whatnot, you would have had some money to subsidize
it.
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Levy: But there wasn't much support even among the general majority
community. Right?
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Freeman: That's true. This is true. So a lot of times Madame Dawson's
house was put up toward the, to defray some of the expenses.
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Levy: Really? She, she guaranteed the performance by, by putting a, uh, a
note on her house?
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Freeman: Yes. And her husband was like her best friend, no matter what she
did. He was a good businessman. And he was right with her, you know, trying
to keep her going with this.
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Levy: Constantly supported all of her artistic ventures. Right?
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Freeman: Right, right. He graduated from the Wentworth Institute in
Boston, and she graduated from New England Conservatory in Boston. So
that's that's how they really met. Um, now let's see, where else can I go
from from that point? Um, as far as the opera company is concerned. And it,
as I said.
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Levy: How many, how many performances do you think they, they they
have?Freeman: Oh, my. Levy: In Pittsburgh. Freeman: In Pittsburgh, at
least. At least four. Aida once, I believe. Traviata twice. And The
Ordering of Moses. We had real water. She got she was able to have someone
to, you know, to to stage it so that.
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Levy: So that was an oratorio or a cantata?
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Freeman: Yes, I have the book downstairs. It's an oratorio written by R.
Nathaniel Dett. It isn't done very much, and I think I haven't heard it
done at all. We're the only ones who have, uh, have presented it. Um, it's
a very stirring. Um. Bit of music. Uh, by the way, my husband, Robert J.
Freeman, was a singer, and he traveled with De Paur Infantry Chorus. They
were Columbia artists, uh, recording artists. And he'd been in Japan, and
he was involved in The Ordering of Moses here. He was involved in, uh,
singing in Maryland when we went down there. I have some pictures that I
could show you. I could, as I said, I couldn't gather everything.
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Levy: The National Negro Opera Company. Its base was Pittsburgh?
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Freeman: Its base was Pittsburgh.
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Levy: Because Cardwell. Mrs. Cardwell Dawson was here.
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Freeman: Right. This is where she started it.
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Levy: And then they had performances in the other, in other, I guess
mostly in the East. Would you say?
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Freeman: Yes. Yes.
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Levy: Boston, New York?
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Freeman: Yes. Chicago West. You know, once west, uh, in the South, no
farther than maybe Cumberland, Maryland, you know, Washington, D.C. you
see, all that's in is documented in the opera book, which we will try to
get one for you to put there.
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Levy: I would certainly want to have a copy of this. This definitely
belongs in the library.
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Freeman: Mhm, mhm. So now that's as much as I could go on and on about the
opera company, but I was one of the first accompanists.
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Levy: Uh, yeah. What kind of, um. Uh, the opera of course, you accompanied
was the basic musical accompaniment just piano, or was it an orchestra?
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Freeman: Just piano.
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Levy: 1 or 2 pianos?
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Freeman: Just one piano. I accompanied it in the rehearsal. Let's put it
that way. That's what I was trying to say. I was the first rehearsal
pianist right there in the studio, rehearsing the chorus, you know, and
whatnot. And, um, she had a few understudies that she used.
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Levy: The performance was with the pianist too?
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Freeman: Well the performance was with the orchestra. She was able to get
and she broke another barrier here. To not defy the Union, but to break the
barrier of blacks playing with the Pittsburgh Symphony players. So she was
able to get some of the Pittsburgh players, Symphony players and Lawrence
Peeler, does that name ring a bell to you?
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Levy: : Yes, I know that.
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Freeman: He was a very fine, fine violinist. Well, he was the only black
person playing with the Pittsburgh Symphony, uh, players in the first
production of Aida. Lawrence Peeler. He's still alive right now. Uh, but
that was that was a, oh, that was a mammoth thing that she had done because
the union was very tight on that, you know. But that did happen. And in
the, uh, in somewhere in this book, here is his picture with his violin.
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Levy: You had indicated that you were active in the Treble Clef Choir.
Yes. Talk about that.
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Freeman: All right. Maudelena Johnson, who was, along with Maudelena
Johnson and Mary Cardwell Dawson and, of course, my mother. Those were my
inspirations, those two ladies. With, with Maudelena Johnson being my
teacher. Okay, piano, Maudelena Johnson. I was her confidant, her
accompanist. Okay? She was a different person than Mrs. Dawson was. She was
the humanitarian, more, in a sense, than being the impresario. Mrs. Dawson
was the the dress-up person out, you know, getting people together doing
this. But Mrs. Johnson formed a choir, uh, that she had for over 20 years
before she died. It was a voice, a choir of treble voices. Treble voices.
Uh, she was responsible for giving scholarships to young black students in
most of the southern colleges. So therefore, she was a different kind of
musician, a humanitarian in that sense. Now the choir, um. Gave concerts in
our local churches. Uh, Mrs. Johnson, uh, had rehearsals. Her husband was
Luther Johnson, which was who was Pittsburgh's first one of Pittsburgh's
first photographers some 50 years ago, Luther H. Johnson. That name should
ring a bell to a lot of people. And she would have rehearsals. We would
have rehearsals down there at the studio. And this choir was listed in
Who's Who in Pennsylvania musicians, I guess you would call the book. I
don't know what the year was. You might be able to look that up. But she
died in 1967. And of course, with her having the Treble Clef Choir. Her
students extend, she extended her students into various other things. She
also in later years had the Symphonic Choir of Pittsburgh, which was
composed of most of her students after she left Central Baptist Church
after 25 years, she was at Bethesda Church, and most of her young students
who adored her, who were then young adults, followed her, and she formed
the Symphonic Choir of Pittsburgh. Now, I didn't play for that choir for,
Nelson Gordon played for that choir, but I played for the ladies choir for
22 years.
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Levy: The Treble Clef Choir. You say the voices were all upper register
voices?
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Freeman: Well, women voices, first and second soprano, first and second
alto. Levy: Alto, okay. Freeman: Yes. So you've got a beautiful harmony
there.
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Levy: Well it wasn't it wasn't really all treble if you had the altos in
there. Freeman: Right. Levy: Right? But that was just probably a convenient
name.
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Freeman: Yes. Because it was women. Yes. Then, um.
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Levy: What kind of, what kind of a repertory did you sing? Oh.
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Freeman: Oh, the classic, uh, like, uh, like, let's say, um, Naomi and
Ruth, the old cantata. Levy: Okay. Freeman: Okay. Uh, any of the, um, um,
lighter classics that you might name, you know, but that's the way she
that's the way she carried the music for their repertoire. They did some
spirituals, you know, naturally, because that's part of the heritage. But,
uh, uh, um.
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Levy: It was basically. Did you ever sing with a, uh, say a, you had maybe
a uh, joint concert with an orchestral group?
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Freeman: No, they never did that.
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Levy: Basically, it was just the choir and the piano?
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Freeman: That's right. Just the choir and the piano.
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Levy: And you mostly sang in the churches.
Levy: And probably for some charitable concerts, things of that nature?
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Freeman: Right.
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Freeman: Right.
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Levy: Raise money for these youngsters.
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Freeman: Yes.
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Freeman: Well, at that time, those were, those were older ladies. And now
she would keep some young adults in the choir. But it was basically Miss
Tallulah Rollins is still alive. We were around about the same age. Uh,
Gertrude Johnson Bell sang in the choir, you see. Uh, so that goes way
back, you know, when you're thinking of those women. Um, but they were
adult women with with families, and, and they, they wanted to be a part of
this, this organization. And Mrs. Johnson had the kind of personality that
was warm, you know, and a very gentle and.
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Levy: Highly thought of in the community.
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Freeman: Right. Because she was a minister of music at Central Baptist
Church for years, the difference in the music that was there then than now
is quite different. I will not comment anymore. But anyhow, she was the
person who did that. The founder of this choir. Um, she actually started
the choir, pardon me, during the time of the, um, pardon me, the NYA.
Remember when they had.
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Levy: The National Youth Administration, right? Roosevelt.
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Freeman: Right. That's when she started.
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Levy: The late 30s and 40s.
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Freeman: Right. And she would, um, um, she would get she got paid for
teaching at a little school up in, uh, up in one of the churches up in Penn
Hills, which is not too far away from me. And she started with that idea,
and but the choir became her personal property, more or less, you see. And
she discovered my husband's voice when he was about 14 years old. He was,
um, Wagnerian tenor, um, which is very rare, you know. You know.
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Levy: Still rare today.
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Freeman: Right, even yet. Uh, and by the way, I should put my husband
passed away six years ago. Um, but he had before his illnesses or maybe 5
or 6 years prior to that. Um, he was known as Pittsburgh black tenor. Sang
the messiahs and anything that Mrs. Johnson had or Mrs. Johnson had, and he
was around to do it.
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Levy: What was his first name again?
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Freeman: Robert J. Freeman. And, um. I, I don't know where that material
is. It's upstairs someplace. But you might be able to find out from Joe
Negri. You know, Joe Negri.
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:40.000
Levy: Oh, yeah.
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Freeman: Okay. They had, uh. Levy: And he sang with Joe, didn't he?
Freeman: Well, I'll tell you what he did. The epilogue of Three Rivers was
done by WQED when they were at Belfield and Fifth.
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Levy: Right.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.000
Freeman: Okay. My husband was the the narrator and song.
Freeman: You remember that.
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Levy: Oh yeah, I know that. I know.
Levy: I know who he is, yeah, yeah, sure.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:09.000
Freeman: Okay. All right, so I, you know, I could not let that go by
because he's been.
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Levy: Well, he's, it's an integral part of the history of this city.
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Freeman: This is true, sure. Uh, and although he didn't, couldn't make his
living off of music because we had two daughters, you know, it was a very,
very serious advocation of his, you see. But he worked for 40 years for the
government in the V.A. Hospital. As an orderly, but with me, I've been
always able to, have students, at one time I used to have 25 and 30
students teaching piano coming in and out of here, and it began to affect
my health. Plus taking care of kids, plus taking care of the church job. It
was just too much after a point, you see. So, um, but the music has been,
if you notice, if you have ever opened that cupboard over there, there's
nothing but music of all types. Choral, piano, voice. You see the library.
I have books there, and it's just tapes and tapes and tapes. So music has
been a part of us here, uh, to do it well, you know, and to, um, still keep
the heritage of our spiritual with us. I, um, appreciate gospel done only
if it has some nuance to it and meaningful. And that can be done. You know,
person knows how to get it.
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:34.000
Levy: It's a valid musical force.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.000
Freeman: Oh, yes. We can't get away from it. We can't get away from it.
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:40.000
Levy: Aside from the energy and the emotion where which of course is part
of good music.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.000
Freeman: This is true. This is true.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.000
Levy: You think that. Of course it has to be disciplined of this type.
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:47.000
Freeman: This is right. This is right.
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Levy: Because there's enough quality there to be brought out.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:57.000
Freeman: Right. And so sometimes I get a little weary with the
contemporary. But anyhow. Well go on from there. But different.
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Levy: But different generations.
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.000
Freeman: Yes, yes.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:05.000
Levy: Uh, there's another choir you told me about. That's the Women's
Civic Choir.
00:27:05.000 --> 00:29:11.000
Freeman: Okay. Um, that was the choir founded by Professor Ralph Davis.
Now, he passed away about six years ago. Um, he had a studio in the Hill.
About for 50 years on Hemans Street. Uh, his wife Velma is still living.
Uh, maybe sometime you might want to talk with her, because she would have
a lot of things to tell you about Mr. Davis. He had a studio, and he was a
church musician, and he had the Women's Civic Choir, now regular pianist of
theirs. I substituted a couple times when he was without his regular
accompanist, you know, but I had connections with him. And later years. We
began to give the Messiah. He wanted to. He wanted to form. In fact, we
started to form a Messiah, Messiah society. And for about five years. He
gave the Messiah at Bethel and also the Messiah out here at Bethesda Church
and also at well, it's not Bethesda in Homewood A.M.E. Zion Church. And the
singers would come from whatever direction that they knew about that he was
presenting this, you know, and I worked with him on that. Then I have some
pictures of, uh, what we did, uh, as far as the Messiah is concerned in
other places, we gave the, uh, down at the Hill House, we had the Dawson
Art Guild, which was a name given to the group because of Mrs. Dawson.
Okay. And we. Levy: Mrs. Cardwell Dawson?Freeman: Uh huh, yes. And we gave
the Messiah there in his honor. Oh, a couple so years before he died, you
know? So. But it's the funniest thing. People always want to get involved
with the Messiah, and they can't. And, you know, I guess it's a it's a it's
a kind of a thing that brings us, tells us all about God's, uh, uh, Jesus,
his his, his birth, his death and his resurrection. And I think.
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:12.000
Levy: It's also a great piece of music.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.000
Freeman: Yes.
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Levy: Which is why that's why it lasted. Of course.
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000
Freeman: That's right. It'll last forever. It'll last forever.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Levy: Handel wrote a lot of wonderful music, but that's what he's
remembered for.
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.000
Freeman: That's right.
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.000
Levy: He wrote dozens of operas and dozens of oratorios.
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.000
Freeman: Right.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.000
Levy: Good ones.
00:29:27.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Freeman: Right. But every year you learn something new about the Messiah
you didn't do before. I worn out Messiah books playing. But you still learn
something by every blessed. You think. So that was the era that, um,
Professor Davis lived. He was a gentle fellow. Uh, in fact. It seemed like
that was a very terrific week. Sad week because he died two days, about
three days after my husband died. So we were just sort of kind of involved
with a, you know, funny.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.000
Levy: A lot of tragedy.
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:02.000
Freeman: Right? In that whole week.
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:03.000
Levy: In a short period of time.
00:30:03.000 --> 00:31:03.000
Freeman: Right, right, right, right. And he had many, many students.
