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Maurice Levy: You really. You really loved your teaching because in
addition, as you were saying before, in addition to these prominent people
like Erroll Garner and Billy Strayhorn, you got as much satisfaction out of
the kids who who were just the kind who just learned music just for the fun
of it.
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McVicker: Because the Pittsburgh Symphony came out to Westinghouse a
number of times through the Buhl Foundation, you know, and Fritz Reiner
directed there.
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McVicker: Won the state contest in 1956. Because Oscar, we didn't go into
contests in the city. They had what they called a Pennsylvania music
Education Association, and they have their own district orchestras and
county groups and so on. And while I belonged to it because a lot of my
friends did, and I wanted to support the whole picture rather than just the
city, it kind of got me into trouble at times because some of the dates
would coincide. But anyway. I would. Try to do both of them there at the
same time, but the order is going to say the. I just told the symphony,
man. I said, what would you have us play some of these little special
arrangements of Rubank? Mom, dad that dad, dad like that little, little,
uh, waltz melody. And I even had an argument with, uh, Dorian down at
Carnegie Tech. Frederick Dorian. I was at a Pitt clinic, and he said, uh,
Mr. McVicker, I don't believe any high school students should have
permission to play. Something unnecessary in the original edition. If you
can't play it. Wait till you can. And I said, Doctor Dorian, I would rather
play eight measures of Bach. Then to play 36 measures up many, many
measures of something written by some little company like Rubank. That's a
big company, really, for public school music that it's specially written
for, for. Second. You can't play very well.
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Levy: Second rate music.
McVicker: Yes, that's what I said. I said, I don't see any reason why my
Brass car choir can't play some beautiful Bach chorale and be inspired by
it.
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Levy: But however, you said that you in many cases you used the original
arrangements or on some occasions did you use the others? Yeah.
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McVicker: I like the New World Symphony, Dvorak. We used the Carl Fischer
arrangement of that. The, which was supposed to parallel the other, but it
was transposed everything. So you take a trumpet player and one of those
symphony arrangements and the trumpet part for the the. Symphony and Fifth
Symphony. Beethoven. C trumpet. Not to play a whole tone above and and
well.
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Levy: Well, that would be transposed for the instruments and the
experience of the kids.
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McVicker: Yeah. So I don't see anything wrong to, uh. Play. Some has
already been transposed for the kid. It still goes back to my original
thesis, and that is the high school children should learn to play the very
best. And even in reading that music, even though they never played on the
stage, I wouldn't have them playing on the stage unless I felt they were
ready. But even if they're just reading that music, which we did a lot in,
in between seasons, like after the concert and so on, I said they're
learning far more than they would out of a book in music appreciation. I
don't want some symphjony, man, when they agree on that. I remember the
oboe player came backstage. Uh, before the symphony orchestra played down
there in the Westinhouse. And he said, uh, well, he came in to hear my
orchestra because we were rehearsing at that time. And he said, I
understand you have several oboe players in your group. I said, yes, I have
five oboe players in my various groups, two in the senior orchestra, two in
a junior orchestra, one in a band. I think it was anyway, it was 5 or 6.
And he said, oh. I would love to teach those people. He said, I believe in
this movement very genuinely and said, I'd like to be a help. Encouraging
to have music like this or orchestras and bands, particularly the senior
orchestra, which was symphony style. And I said, oh, that'll be great. I'll
get them all out of all these classes.
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McVicker: I got special permission, got out of the class, and I said,
we'll meet in the practice rooms and you can talk to them. Oh, he said,
that would be great. And my kids were just so excited talking to a symphony
oboe English horn player. He got him back there, and he might as well have
just brought in a great big barrel full of cold water. Really. He was
excited about it and he said, Now I'm going to give you people a special
rate. For lessons I have. I have you all on the class here, and I don't
know about the all of the class, but he take like the senior orchestra oboe
players at one time and and the senior band and the other time and the and
the B orchestra another time and. I had the impression anyway. Looking
back, he was going to take them all together. Just hear. Hear him
individually and. But they threw the cold water on him right away. He said,
I'm going to give you, oh, he's excited. I'm going to give you people a
special price for this class lesson. And they were thinking, buck and a
half, you know, those days, such a special price was he said, I'll make a
special dispensation to teach you each for $5. One of them quit the oboe
immediately. That was the end of it. And the rest of them, they said, well,
Mr., we can't afford that.
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Levy: The kids in that neighborhood, they barely could. They barely had
lunch money.
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McVicker: Yes. I remember when we won the state contest in the orchestra
to get back to that, and we the final orchestra we came up against was the
York Pennsylvania Orchestra, and he'd won the state contest a time or two
before, and we played the final concert. This time it was an hour end of
the state down at the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Hall. We played, then
they played, then we waited around to hear the results which came over from
the office. Carnegie Mellon, Carnegie Tech those days. And here we got
superior right in. They got excellent. Which is the second place. I had. I
tried to be nice to the guy and I offered him the use of my tempting and
everything there so he wouldn't have to transport him across the state and
and. After he finished playing and they waited around and heard the
results, and I was sitting down there with some of my orchestra members in
the front part of the auditorium. As he came by, as he says, let's get the
hell out of here. No wonder that orchestra won. They all take lessons with
Pittsburgh Symphony. And I turned to him and I said, Mister, I've got news
for you. None of my pupils can afford to take lessons from the Pittsburgh
Symphony. None.
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Levy: He wasn't a very gracious loser, was he?
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McVicker: Well, I imagine that was the attitude a lot of people had, you
know, with the city kids. Remember that might might have applied to
Allderdice, because I understood a lot of them did take the picture.
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Levy: Because they could afford it. Yeah.
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McVicker: My kids were gotten up to have enough to eat that land. They
couldn't. Some of them couldn't even afford to replace the strings. I had
to furnish the oboe reeds. They couldn't afford to buy the reeds.
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Levy: How was the. The Pittsburgh Public Schools at that time. They gave
you a lot of support, though, for music, didn't they?
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McVicker: And Westinghouse did. Yeah. Mhm. Uh, sometimes it was
unsolicited. Oh really. Yes I, I remember I had a lot of brass. Probably
because I was a brass man and I had a very fine band and. And I've tried to
keep the orchestra up. In fact, some towards the end, the orchestra kept up
better than the band. It's a long story there. As a matter of scheduling.
They wouldn't go into that another time, but. The. Orchestra a background
of kids all coming in with their grade schools and string classes all
through there. So they kept up pretty well.
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Levy: The Oscar Demmler was the director of instrumental music. When you
won the state championship?
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McVicker: Yes, I got sidetracked. I was going to talk about Oscar.
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Levy: And Jacob Evanson was the choral. Choral.
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McVicker: Oscar was a very fine friend of mine, I. I enjoyed all my years
working with Oscar. Very fine gentleman. A good musician had very high
standards. And we all felt like cooperating fully with Oscar and. So,
Oscar, when we won the state contest, the school made a big deal about it.
I'll say that for Felton. He stopped everything, had to put on a concert
and had kind of a little reception for the orchestra back in the library.
As I say, he was.
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Levy: I remember that.
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McVicker: He had appreciated that very much and he gave me several
considerations. Like go into later about that. But. Oscar brought
Bakaleinikoff, an associate director of the Pittsburgh Symphony at that
time, who was director. I think Reiner was a director.
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Levy: It's 56. It would be Steinberg.
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McVicker: Steinberg.
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Levy: Steinberg. Yeah.
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McVicker: Anyway, he brought Bakaleinikoff for a week and we were told
ahead of time. Orchestra was a fourth period. So that particular day we set
up on the stage and. So we were all set. Oscar came with the Bakaleinikoff
in the back of the auditorium. Came in from the office. So we went into.
Required number. For the contest, we had a required number and one that we
chose ourselves and. The required number was. The number. A modern number
written. In honor of who was that character that represented the Big Steel?
John something.
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Levy: Yeah. Joe Magarac. Joe Magarac. He was like, the steel's Paul
Bunyan. Yes, Joe.
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McVicker: That wasn't the name of the piece, but it was about.
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Levy: Had to do about the steel.
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McVicker: About the steel business and very modern style. A lot of, uh,
syncopated rhythms in it. And. And the harmony wasn't any church harmony.
And the kids ate that up, and they loved that. But. And they played it for
high school kids real well, I suppose. Pittsburgh City would turn up their
noses at it, but. We had everything just going together, I had. Former
practice teacher. My name is a fine violinist. Had him coach the strings
preparatory of the contest. He showed them back to hook, bowing and so on.
And. I took care of the brass and woodwind and percussion and put it
together a number of times. Anyway, Oscar brought Bakaleinikoff into the
back of the auditorium and heard him play. I thought for sure he'd come up
and it wouldn't hurt him to made a some kind of a compliment or remark. You
don't get that far without an awful lot of work, and you don't get that far
without playing pretty well. I'll say that because the judges were well
trained musicians and. You know, his only comment was. Citizens fine
orchestra. A good orchestra or something like that. He just said one of the
one of the shells got off bow once. That was his comment. Never, never came
up, never didn't, didn't want to be introduced to me or anything. And I was
introduced to Fritz Reiner once. Really? Yes. And the Pittsburgh Symphony
played there. And he acted.
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Levy: What did he say?
McVicker: Oh, he acted as if he were shaking hands with. With somebody who
had. I've been fooling around with the dirt.
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Levy: Well, he had that look about that look.
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McVicker: Just like he's shaking hands with a cold fish.
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Levy: He didn't he didn't smile very often. I've talked to a couple of
symphony musicians, though, he said, even though even though he he his
public image was not positive because he didn't have a flamboyant podium
manner that underneath it he just didn't express he, he appreciated it, but
he just didn't express it. He would thank them on occasion. Was sort of an
interesting view, because I'm sure you saw him at the symphony and I and he
always had that very, uh, uh, almost a scowl on his face.
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McVicker: Yeah, he did.
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Levy: But but.
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McVicker: Maybe I had the wrong impression. But I just felt that that he
would pull out whether at the principal hadn't introduced me.
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Levy: Well, he just. He the one person said he wasn't that personable,
although he may have felt that he just didn't ever express it. He never
felt the need to. And at, at the rehearsals, uh, the ones that there wasn't
anybody. He was the finest. Conductor. He may have been the finest
conductor he ever played under, and he played under Toscanini. This person,
is that right? That's what he said. He said because. Because he was so
precise. He said, you knew. He knew exactly what he was doing when he had
that little tiny bow. You know, he had that very tiny, uh, uh, beat.
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McVicker: Uh, here's the way he directed his symphony. Bop bop bop bop.
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Levy: But it came out, he said, because you knew exactly what he wanted.
Everything was marked carefully, and he said that they had as many as he
said he didn't call one week. He had seven rehearsals for a concert. That's
that's unheard of. So it, uh, maybe some of the public publicity he got was
a little unfair, but everybody has a different public image, and his image
was not. But but the musicians said he was a great musician. Mhm. Well he
obviously was. He, he built the Pittsburgh Symphony and he built the
Chicago Symphony.
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McVicker: When you're speaking about the Beethoven Symphony, there brings
back memories. Those days until towards the very end, Westinghouse. The
kids and myself can hardly wait till the fourth period for orchestra, and
the sixth period for band to get in to play. I'll try to play all these top
things. I had a lot of fine Italian and background clarinet players and
woodwind players in general. Why they could rip those Italian overtures or
Italian Algiers Barber, Rossini and one one boy. He was a black boy too. He
did this well. He held himself like that. He said, oh, Mr. McVicker, we're
lucky to have you for director, because you give us all this great music.
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Levy: The kids. The kids loved that kind of.
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McVicker: Then my last year at Westinghouse, one of the boys that were all
black and, uh, came in on a warm day towards the end of the season. Oh, Mr.
We got to play this junk again. The very same overture. Because after the
after the concert season was over the concert in the April of May, we just
read music. I give them different music every week, you know, at a fine
library there. And. So I got this Barber of Seville and let's play Barber
of Seville today. And I had it in the folios. And that fellow made that. We
got to play this junk again. I told him this number you called junk was the
one. The bands five years ago thanked me for giving them this good music.
Pat Prattis, like I mentioned in that newspaper article, thanked me for
giving her the background and all this music. She was a good violin player
too, by the way. Was she? Very good. She was concert mistress for a while.
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Levy: Well, I guess she was, because I was there. That's right. She was
the concert mistress.
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McVicker: She played there. I have a lot of happy memories of Pat. She.
She and I were very good friends. She'd come down and when I had my free
period, she'd. Her teacher would let her drop by and she'd play some for me
and we'd talk and and. After we won the state contest had nothing to do
with it except the publicity. Imagine we were. My orchestra was asked to
play down at Carnegie Hall and. So I featured Pat Prattis playing the
Mozart Coronation Concerto. Carnegie Tech loaned me that original music for
that was pretty well. Warm. I remember her playing that for me. And she
played the Grieg Piano Concerto. The. I had an original professional
arrangement of that too. And she played that before the coronation. But the
coronation concerto was the one she played down at Carnegie Hall, we got a
lot of fine comments about that. Mrs. Bennett, head of the public school
music department at Carnegie Tech, was there. And all of them. And people
from the music. Pittsburgh. Educators Club. They were from all around and
so I was so happy to feature Pat there. I can see what a good orchestra we
had then. Well, a far cry from the early days when I first started at
Westinghouse.
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Levy: Well, you built the program. The program was built. And, uh, even
though the neighborhood changed, it stayed that way. And almost until until
you put it up until the very end, you were able to maintain a.
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McVicker: In a way, we built up a, uh, our supporters in the neighborhood.
I remember one time coming in from a parade rehearsal, I didn't I wouldn't
go downtown without a parade rehearsal. I didn't just get the gang together
and line up the streets and go down through town. We rehearsed day after
day in the back streets, going up the back street. I remember one time
coming back and I just got back to my room, my free period of the seventh
period and thought I could take care of things like that. The band was
sixth period and I made a mile, a mile a practice. We practice turning
corners and. All these various maneuvers, you know, Countermarch and so on,
close ranks and spread out and so on. And of course, plus the usual roll
offs. And those are the things, you know, that associate with the with a
good, uh, precise marching band holding their instruments. I always had
those trombones and trumpets right out and. So I remember coming back and
the office called me up and said, Mr. McVicker, can you come over to the
telephone? So some parent called. Some woman called up and as a has a
complaint to make. I went to the telephone. Picking up. Mr. McVicker, how's
it come you missed our street today? We were all out on the sidewalks, and
we missed seeing the band. Oh, I said I'm sorry to hear that. I said, we
try to go to a different route every day so they won't disturb the people
in case someone were trying to sleep during the day. Well, she said, well,
please don't. Don't bypass us next time. So you see, that's the kind of
quality I had built up there.
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Levy: It was a community relations because they they could identify with
the school through the band and through the music, the music the kids
brought home from school.
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McVicker: That's right.
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Levy: The.
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McVicker: I could go on forever. So when I started. Okay, I've got to say,
we started out with a. Giving free tickets to the concerts when I first
started and hardly anybody came, maybe 100. And then started charging for
the concerts a small amount, $0.50 or a dollar. Later on. And I gave a
prize for the ones who sold the most tickets, and I gave a room prize of a
box of candy for the room that sold, bought the most tickets, and had
everything well organized. One boy down there at the corner of Frankstown
and Washington Boulevard, he'd stand right there. He was selling papers.
You know how the people had their money ready, right?
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Levy: They drive by.
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McVicker: And he wouldn't let him drive away. He'd take it. He said, here,
here's the ticket for the Westinghouse concert for next Friday night. And
he said, how much is it? $0.50. And? You didn't stick it right in the face
of the head. If they had a buck, pay for the paper or something like that.
So he sold 200.
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Levy: Really? Well, he probably had regular customers who saw him every
day about the paper.
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McVicker: So it got up the place where we had to have the concert two
nights. First night the auditorium was packed. The captain of the fire, uh,
of, uh, police fire captain of the fire station nearby came to me. Mr.
McVicker, you can't have this concert like this anymore. He said you had
1500 people in the auditorium there and only built for 1100. He said they
were sitting up in the winds and everything. I said hello. I didn't realize
we were going to have that many people at that time. I said, I'll put it on
two nights after this. And that's what we did. I always had a project one
year buying a new bass clarinet. Whether you're buying a real good tuba.
The Board of Education gave us $100 tubas, so I bought real good tubas to
silver plated. We could polish and make it look like something, and it
looked like a big garbage can with valves on it.
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Levy: Well, the Board of Education would provide instruments to the kids
that didn't have them, wouldn't they?
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McVicker: Yes and no? Towards the end, they gave me instruments. I really
didn't need a lot more baritones. Trumpets and trombones because like I
say, I had to have a project. A bass clarinet cost $600. Nowadays it's
three times that those days, 600. So that took the entire proceeds of a
concert. And so we make that kind of a project. Another time. Majorette
uniforms. Another time, a big banner for the Westinghouse band. And I
always had a project and another project, and the community supported me
tremendously. That's why I never wanted to transfer. Because I've been at
the bottom of the totem pole for I'd gone to another school.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:52.000
McVicker: [?].
McVicker: Want me to go to Allderdice? When they heard I was retiring, I
said, Stan, I can't go through that [?] again. They needed new uniforms. I
said, that's the first thing I had to do. I said, it took me ten years at
Westinghouse to get enough money to buy the uniforms. I said, most people
think the school board's buy them. They don't buy any uniforms in the city.
So just forget about it.
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Levy: Well, you were happy. You were happy at Westinghouse High School and
there wasn't any. Youd had to start in all over again, re-orienting the
people in the community. And by that time you were near retirement. So.
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McVicker: I had no home room. Which, as you know, is a band and orchestra
teacher. That's a hassle.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Levy: That's right. The fact you had no home room, it gave you more
opportunity to develop.
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McVicker: I always used that for rehearsal. That's the only time I'd get a
lot of groups together. Because we had no band camp like they have in the
outlying districts that go to all.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.000
Levy: The suburban schools. Had much bigger budgets. Right.
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:54.000
McVicker: Yes. And the band director, that's his only job. I had friends
that were band directors here. I had six periods a day. And you're outside
the school. That was our job for the band. They filled it up with little
things to do, you know, call themselves supervisors. Went around schools
now and then.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.000
McVicker: But a different.
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:04.000
McVicker: Situation altogether.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:30:04.000
Levy: This is the continuation of the interview with Carl McVicker, Sr. on
August the 26th, 1991. The Oral History of Music in Pittsburgh project. The
interview concludes on side B of this tape.
