WEBVTT
00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:27.000
Maurice Levy: This is Maurice Levy speaking to Carl McVicker for the Oral
History of Music in Pittsburgh project. It's August the 26th, 1991. What
was your first recollection of music as a youngster?
00:00:27.000 --> 00:01:30.000
Carl McVicker: Well, it started very early. My dad was a very good
flutist. My mother played piano and later on my older sister took up
violin. She never became a very advanced violinist, just about high school
level, you know. And but dad and mother loved fine music. Dad met mother at
Waynesburg College, and they must have had a good music department there,
because I have his French flute that he gave me when he died and. I had
some a lot of his solos that he played and they were difficult solos, very
difficult, not just to Mary had a little lamb type thing. Very difficult,
as difficult as any trumpet solos that I played later. And I majored in
music and. He was a minister, Presbyterian minister, and music was a big
part of his services. He always organized the church orchestra wherever he
went and had a little group playing like that.
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:32.000
Levy: So you had you had a lot of music in the home then?
00:01:32.000 --> 00:02:06.000
McVicker: Yes. Good music. Good, good music. I remember when I came along,
I got started in music. I hadn't started Carnegie Tech yet. I went to
Edinboro before I went to Carnegie Tech. They called it Edinboro Normal,
then later became Edinboro College and now Edinboro University. And I
remember, uh, coming home one weekend and, uh. I. On my own, I learned how
to triple tone and trumpet.
00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.000
Levy: Why did you pick the trumpet?
00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:55.000
McVicker: I always wanted to play trumpet, a cornet, but in those days it
was cornet. Cornet later on was trumpet because the trumpet was a symphony
instrument. Well, I heard him in the small towns who lived in Illinois and
Indiana and various places where we lived when dad preached mostly out
through the Midwest at that time. And I heard the bands and community bands
and, and I remember some circus band coming to town. I was glued to the
cornet player, the. Anyway, I remember coming home from Edinboro one
weekend and there was a. Playing some triple tongue solos, you know. Da da
da da da da da.
00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.000
Levy: Carnival of Venice.
00:02:57.000 --> 00:04:02.000
McVicker: Among others. Yes, yes. And. Dad jumped all over me. He says.
Carl. I never want to hear you playing anything like that on Sunday again.
My eyes opened up and I said, why? What's the matter with that? Uh, I
thought this was it was a good idea to to play music and things like that
on Sunday because I went out with a bad crowd. Well, I never even said that
because I was just taking for granted I wouldn't be out as a minister's
son. And he said he said, well, don't you know, Carl, that all these triple
tongue solos are are polkas and the polka is a dance music? He said, I
don't want you playing that on Sunday. I said, well, what should I play? He
said, well, play religious. Religious music. That's all I had. Background.
Clear back in was a little boy and later on in college and playing nothing
but good music.
00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:08.000
Levy: And you went to Edinboro and came out of Edinboro. And what did you
do then?
00:04:08.000 --> 00:05:27.000
McVicker: Edinboro was a very good stepping stone for me. I didn't care
for the subject matter I was in because Edinboro taught me how to be a
teacher. My folks just didn't have the money to to go beyond that, because
you could go to Edinboro for the total for the year for around $300. And it
didn't have a tuition, had what they call a contingency fee. And the whole
thing was $300, give or take a little bit, because I got homesick at first
and went back and forth home for a while and weekends. But I tell you, they
must have realized up there that that I would aiming should be aimed
towards high school work, you know. And so they sent me to to Erie. From my
practice teaching. Instead of sending me to the grade schools around
Edinboro, and I sent most of them. So they sent me up to a brand new high
school. At that time, its Academy High and it was much like Westinghouse.
They had a full time instrumental teacher. And I was only 19 when I
graduated from Edinboro. So I suppose I was 18. When I.
00:05:27.000 --> 00:06:42.000
Levy: You did your student teaching.
McVicker: In Erie, and I was. And I didn't have music curriculum. In
Edinboro. They had in, uh, Indiana and Westchester. So. But Edinboro was
the nearest school from where my parents lived and. I, uh, in my free
period I had, they assigned me to a didn't assign me to give me permission
to join the orchestra. They put me on first trumpet. They needed me on
there pretty badly. And, uh, in the orchestra were several players who
formed a dance band on the side. We rehearsed one of the big theaters
downtown and. The fellow in charge. The old man in charge had contracts to
play all over Canada that summer. But. It wasn't to be, but that that made
me realize how nice it was and to have a music education in the schools. I
think that's sowed the seed because I played enough to travel around in
orchestras to realize I didn't want to make my living in a swing band, as
they call them, jazz band.
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.000
Levy: You live on a bus, don't you? Things like that.
00:06:45.000 --> 00:08:51.000
McVicker: I just. Didnt appeal to me that way. Just like grinding out
the music by that background of my parents, you know, playing good music
and reading it and feeling it here and sit up here and and. And so it
wasn't to me because I went back home for Easter. And, uh, told my parents
I had this offer to stay with this orchestra up at the Erie. That was just
a sign there for half a year. Not for my practice teacher who stayed with
the family and the mother went into hysterics. She just went into
hysterics. Carrying on. Just one of the people asked me what my son's going
to be doing. Going to playing in a jazz band. Oh, I can't bear the thought
of it. So she said dad wanted me to be at home anyway that summer. So that
was the end of that. I received an offer to teach in a small town high
school up in Mercer County, but I organized a. Little Community orchestra
when he played there for school. And then one thing I'll have to remember
too that local high school there only had three year high school up in
Mercer County where I attended. So I was short of credit when I got up to
Edinboro. And the principal of the Edinboro Doctor Crane, whom I. Really
worshipped, said Carl. You're short a credit or my folks were with me at
the time, and you're short a credit and. He asked me all about. I work at
home, and my dad told him that I had organized a community orchestra and
played for various things around there. So he said, oh well, that answers
that. Then I can give you a credit for. Having that orchestra give you a
full credit for orchestra work. So that's how I got in with the years
deficiency.
00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:55.000
Levy: You were. You were from what town? Where were you born?
00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.000
McVicker: I was born in a little town called West Union.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.000
Levy: West Union. Where's that near?
00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:03.000
McVicker: That's near Waynesburg.
00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:04.000
Levy: Waynesburg? Thats south.
00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.000
McVicker: Dad was a Minister there.
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:11.000
Levy: So after that, then when did you come to the Pittsburgh Public
Schools? That was your first.
00:09:11.000 --> 00:10:10.000
McVicker: Well, I taught two years up in Mercer County as assistant
principal of a small high school. And those days, they didn't have central
heating. There were two rooms for the high school separated by a folding
door. And the principal had one room and I had the other. We alternated,
but we had one room as far as taking care of the huge stove, and we had to
keep that stove during the winter and bring up coal from it. And we had to
be our own janitors after school and take care of all that. That seems
laughable now. I went through that period and when that was common. And I
was considered very fortunate to get that assignment right out of the
Edinboro. Cause most of them just went to these little one room country
schools and. My first salary was 1080 a year.
00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.000
Levy: A thousand.
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:14.000
McVicker: $1,080. Eight months. The next year they made.
00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.000
Levy: It back in about 1923? Something like that.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:37.000
McVicker: 23. That's when I graduated from Edinboro. Took that job that
fall. I enjoyed that. I had no even at my age, I had no discipline
problems. The school was small for that matter. And I got my first car was
a Ford Coupe.
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:44.000
Levy: So you were an independent person too? Yes. For the first time, you
were away from home and you earned your own living.
00:10:44.000 --> 00:12:33.000
McVicker: Yes, and. So. But this seemed too standard for anybody's
ambitious here just to teach for two years. And I thought that I might, uh,
go on the road playing. I just wanted to be in music. I had an offer to go
on the road, but that didn't turn out. It wasn't what I wanted, and I
wasn't what they wanted. Either they wanted somebody out in the Midwest to
go in a, like a regular jazz band, play by ear or everything on. I did
everything by music and. So I gave that up and went to Philadelphia. Then
right after that, and started taking trumpet lessons from the man in the
Philadelphia Symphony. Then I. During that course of lessons, I received a
telegram from. A man who was a director of the orchestra at the Grand Hotel
on Mackinac Island, Michigan. I'd been corresponding with him. I answered
an ad I saw in the music magazine. A very common magazine at that time
called Metronome. And he had an ad in there and. Our correspondence just
clicked. He wanted my type of person, a young man, an interest in good
music, and I think he thought I had more experience than I had. But he was
an older man, a very fine violinist. His brother played piano in the group
and it turned out he had a very fine orchestra. So I left Philadelphia,
went up to Mackinaw Island, finished the season. Then I spent the next
season there too, but my. Last year between the first last year at Carnegie
Tech, I got two years.
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:35.000
Levy: You went back to Carnegie Tech. Then
00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.000
McVicker: I went to Carnegie Tech. From Mackinac Island.
00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:41.000
Levy: That was for, uh, your advanced training beyond what you had.
00:12:41.000 --> 00:13:34.000
McVicker: I got advanced standing for two years. Mhm. From Edinboro, but I
was short certain credits, like first and second year of Harmony and, uh,
the counterpoint and orchestration and composition. Four years altogether.
That. So. They let me take two years at once. The second year, the
counterpoint and composition and orchestration. But there was a second year
of harmony. There was a gap in there. So they they let me take a work with
the pianist in the orchestra up in Mackinac Island. And I'd get up early
and do the exercises and and do all that. And I had to turn it in to
Carnegie Tech. Showed what I had done.
00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:38.000
Levy: So you worked up in the Grand Hotel up there? Grand Mackinac hotel.
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:42.000
McVicker: That was an education. Well, they played some fine music.
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:48.000
Levy: Oh, they they had a lot of very wealthy people come up there. Wasn't
that a very wealthy resort? It still is in some ways.
00:13:48.000 --> 00:14:03.000
McVicker: Oh yes. Luckily, I was assigned second trip, but I could never
made it on first trumpet. They had a very fine, much older first trumpet,
and he kind of took me under his wing, and I had.
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.000
Levy: You played both concerts and for dancing both.
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:44.000
McVicker: Concerts in the dining room, which was a beautiful big dining
room overlooking the streets. And our our, uh, bandstand orchestra stand
was way up high. Looking out over. We had to climb steps to get up there.
Charlie Charles L. Fisher was his name. He he had a very fine repertoire.
And I would go down, get up early in the morning, go down and practice in
the ballroom. Didn't bother anybody there, and we played the grill room at
night. Two nights a week. We played for movies, first a music background.
Then on Sundays.
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.000
Levy: Because they still had silent movies. Yes. Sure.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:30.000
McVicker: Yes. And we played the ballroom on certain nights, particularly
Saturday night when they had. Dancers and everything in there to supplement
the orchestra, and we use special arrangements. The. Saturday night was
really a big. Impressive night. They had special soloists from Broadway and
all. I remember one lady soloist we had with some student prince. Shows
like that, you know, and big Opera. Stars come in and we play excerpts from
operas. And we played some for ourselves, you know.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:36.000
Levy: So you got a wide variety of music. You were. It was a good
education in itself, I suppose.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:16:21.000
McVicker: A better education orchestra playing than I had any time at
college, any time. Edinboro. The music was just a sideline, you know, just
an activity. And the music was like, I would use it Westinghouse in junior
high. So I took up another instrument and I just did it on my own up in
Edinboro. And they had. Several trumpet players, so I took up another
instrument and played in the orchestra. Played trombone and I had to decide
when I went to Carnegie Tech which one I wanted to play for full time. I
had to decide that, and I went to to Mackinaw Island. Of course, when I
went to the. Studied trumpet at Philadelphia Symphony and Harold Roehrig.
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:26.000
Levy: But what do you recall of your training at Carnegie Tech then?
00:16:26.000 --> 00:17:56.000
McVicker: Very fine. I have nothing but the best to say for Tech. I
graduated there in 27. And I got my master's there in 36 part time. But I
had very fine teachers there. Very compassionate, very caring, very
capable. And I had, uh, really, I had to combine four years of work into
two. I simply didn't have the money to figure on going more than two years,
and that didn't enter into it. I was just taking for granted that I had to
get this done in four. So I had a very heavy load. The name. I didn't have
much money. And actually. What I'd save from my two years of teaching went
in one year. The. I gave many thought I. Would appreciate having some work,
you know, so they didn't offer me a scholarship, although I would have
qualified with my grades in high school. But they offered me this music.
Librarian job. They call it librarian. Really? Really. Secretary. And
taking care of the office at night and involved daily work, setting up the
stands and passing the music out for the orchestras, setting up the stands
for the recitals and setting up the risers for the choirs and so on in the
little theater.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:08.000
Levy: Over there in that it was the Kresge there at that time in Kresge,
there in fine arts. Is that where it was in fine arts? Fine arts building?
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:15.000
McVicker: Everything was right there. But for the big concerts, the
seminars, we used Carnegie Hall.
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.000
Levy: So do you recall any of the people who taught you at, uh.
00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:55.000
McVicker: Oh, all of them. Yes. In the music ed. department, uh, held a
Jane Kenley and, uh. Miss Canfield. Sue Canfield. They were. They came from
Pitt when they started the music department. Music education department.
Carnegie Tech. And they were the the. Music ed. People really and Otto
Mertz. I had a lot of respect for him. He was the arranger for Sousa's
band. Sousa's name was very big at that time. He was as much of a hero to
me as Elvis Presley to some of these people now.
00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:03.000
Levy: Did you ever get to see the band that did it? I know it came through
Pittsburgh several times. Did you ever get to see it?
00:19:03.000 --> 00:20:39.000
McVicker: Oh yes. That's a different story. Oh, I have happy memories of
that. But, uh. Sousa. Uh, Otto Mertz is going to get back to the teachers
there. Vic O'Brien is the head of the music department. But he took the
second year off and I was there. Went to Europe to get his doctorate. And
he was German trained and he got some more training there. And Karl
Malcherck was director of the orchestra then. Karl capital K A R L
Malcherck and. And I had. And Dalcroze Eurhythmics. Let's see. Whom did I
have there? Hilda Schuster did part of it. Hilda Schuster. But Miss
Canfield did also a part of it. I didn't care for that. Because you had to
get dressed up like a dancer. And I just they had me just dressed up like
this and took her shoes off. But I didn't care for her because I was like
all the other fellows there. I wanted to, I wanted to go ahead on my horn.
A music education was just a. Secondary thought for me at that time. To. I
found it very interesting as a music teacher, music director, because you
had to learn to direct. One, two, three.
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:46.000
Levy: So they taught you, uh, introductory conducting, things like that to
beating time.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.000
McVicker: Beating two against three.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.000
Levy:
McVicker: At the Same time.
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.000
Levy: Uh huh.
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.000
McVicker: Doing with your feet to.
00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:02.000
Levy: Now the music, the music education department, as you recall it,
that was a relatively recent innovation at Carnegie Tech. That's right.
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.000
McVicker: They hadn't been there too long.
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.000
Levy: And they had come from Pitt. Do you mean Pitt had it first?
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.000
McVicker: Two ladies had.
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:09.000
Levy: Yeah. They come from Pitt.
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:55.000
McVicker: Stop the music education department at Pitt in. Let's take
another piano. Carl Manzarek told me. Taught me secondary violin. Louis
Pinello. Louis Pinello was my trumpet teacher. He was the first chair
trumpet of Pittsburgh Symphony at that time. And. Upon his death, and when
I worked on my master's degree, Jimmy Morrow was my teacher, and he was
first chair of the Pittsburgh Symphony at that time. So I had three fine
symphony teachers in my life. All symphony. Because my my. My tendency was
not towards swing at all. I'd like to get a nice tone.
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.000
Levy: You didn't play. You werent interested in jazz, particularly.
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:25.000
McVicker: I played it, but I never called myself a jazz person at all. My
son's a fine jazz man. He could play all evening by ear as well as read. He
graduated second, and then he went to Duquesne for his master's. He said he
has a fine background on the double bass, you know.
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.000
Levy: Okay. All right. What was that again?
00:22:29.000 --> 00:23:20.000
McVicker: I spent the next season also at Mackinac Island. Left right from
Carnegie Tech and joined the orchestra at the at the. Culver Military
Academy in Indiana. Yes, we played an all night prom there. The trumpet
player went over the parts with me, and we played all night, and then
played our way on up to Mackinac Island, played at Houghton Lake and
various places on the way. Millionaires places and and had a very nice
season up there. Mackinac Island. Yeah. Right. came back. Uh, I see. What
do I do next? And, uh, Russian has higher that okay.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:27.000
Levy: That's where you start that. Do you want to tell us your memory of
the Sousa band? Because that's a part of the history of Pittsburgh. I
remember that.
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.000
McVicker: Comes with my Westinghouse high experience.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:41.000
Levy: Okay. So that's back in the, uh, maybe late 20s, early 30s when
Sousa came to Pittsburgh. Sousa, Did he had that enormous band. Uh, I
remember where at one time he had.
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.000
McVicker: A hundred and ten piece band.
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:47.000
Levy: 110 piece band, which was large for that time. That large.
00:23:47.000 --> 00:24:31.000
McVicker: Those those were the days in the era of the big traveling bands.
Sousa's band. And out of Sousa's band came Arthur Pryor, who was one of the
world's finest trombone players at that time, and Arthur Pryor organized
own band. Kreator had a big band. I have a Balmer Kryll. Kryli. I think he
was from what we'd call. Uh Yugoslav era in Bohemia and. Kreator and big
Italian band. All very fine. And they made it for him. Danny Nirella down
in town had musicians have made a full time living playing in bands. Not
one band, but several.
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:36.000
Levy: Well, they always played the opening game of Forbes Field, didn't
they? Danny Nirella's band.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.000
McVicker: Played for all kinds of things down there. And, uh.
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:49.000
Levy: Well, there were bands. There were bands in in all all, all there
were coal, uh, mining bands weren't there. But bands in some of the small
communities around here.
00:24:49.000 --> 00:25:09.000
McVicker: Uh, the success of Sousa's band, uh, went to Allentown. And
their band is closest to Sousa's band any around anymore. And for a long,
for long years, several years, the graduates sort of called graduates or
alumni of Sousa's band, got work there.
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:15.000
Levy: These were professionals? Yes, they were professionals. In other
words. Sousa. He was a wasn't he the head of the marine band?
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:24.000
McVicker: Yes. Sometimes they say that that's where he got his name. John
Philip Sousa, U.S.A..
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:26.000
Levy: Well, that's what some of the people say.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:27.000
McVicker: It's just a suggestion.
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:34.000
Levy: Yeah, I think that's a Portuguese name. I think he's Portuguese, but
it sounds good anyhow, whether it's true or not.
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:58.000
McVicker: And he was the epitome of band music. And I as a trumpet player,
I wasn't never that much interested in playing and symphony work because I
did enough community symphony work and Carnegie Tech Symphony to know that
you sit there and and count out 100 measures, rest for you, blow a note.
Well, the Sousa band playing all time Sousa.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.000
Levy: You play from the downbeat until the until the coda. Until the end,
huh?
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:12.000
McVicker: And Sousa always featured the cornet and trumpet players and
especially the cornet. And he'd have seated right out front, right, right
at his right.
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:17.000
Levy: Well, they marched in parades. And they also they gave concerts,
too.
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:38.000
McVicker: Yes. He traveled around the world several times. Herbert Earl
Clark was a model for for us brass players. Cornet. Trumpet player. Because
he played with such ease and played high, difficult members, and he was a
scholarly looking man. Not a not a bum type of person.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.000
Levy: That has died out in the 30s.
00:26:40.000 --> 00:27:33.000
McVicker: They all died out and before, uh. I had gotten very gotten very
far in Westinghouse. I hadn't gotten married yet. Uh. They? I don't know
who did it. I guess it's the Board of Education. I've really been Doctor
Earhart. He was an outstanding music educator in the United States. Will
Earhart I have a book of his that I took up from him on my. Recently.
Master's work. He taught a special course. But. He arranged for Sousa's
band. To come to Pittsburgh. I think they played at the Stanley Theater.
Anyway, Sousa came. He was still able, but he had arthritis badly, and he
couldn't direct with a lot of, uh.
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:34.000
Levy: Trouble with his arms.
00:27:34.000 --> 00:28:17.000
McVicker: More, more or less with his arms up and down. So, uh, but his
name, as I say, was very big. And Doctor Ehrhardt wanted to encourage
instrumental music in the schools, particularly bands, because bands were
almost unknown, unknown in the schools. Orchestras was a big thing. Then
under Doctor Ehrhardt, he had very fine orchestras. The verifying set up in
the grade schools to to train them for that. Strings and everything. So.
When I went to Westinghouse band only met once every two weeks as an
activity. And Doctor Earhart got fixed up, so that was scheduled daily with
full credit.
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:28.000
Levy: So in the in Doctor Earhart then was innovated to the place where
orchestra became a standard school subject as opposed to a sort of an
extracurricular kind of thing. Right.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:29:31.000
McVicker: And the band, band and orchestra and then became a daily full
credit course. And so I after 3 or 4 years, I was given a full instrumental
schedule instead of half of vocal, what they call general music vocal.
Well, in those intervening years, I was married in 31 and I started
Westinghouse in 1927. It was only intervening years. Uh, Sousa was sent to
the 5 or 6 high schools in the city, Westinghouse being one of them. And he
came out to our school. Kids were very impressed, and I had a small band
and I suppose two dozen players. So that's what I inherited in a way. And
but some of them were very fine musicians. One. One of the trumpet players
later became the first chair in the KDKA Staff Orchestra. Jimmy Herbert was
a fine trombone player who played in all the big clubs around here, and
Holiday House and so on, and I could go on.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Levy: What did Sousa do when he came out, did he talk to the youngsters or
they they bring some musicians with him?
00:29:38.000 --> 00:30:37.000
McVicker: Time, what music to have. And one of them was his number. He
wrote particularly for high school called high School Cadets and that,
that, that, that time. And he talked to the group and they were very
impressed. And he said, now, the first of all. Sit up straight. Put your
instruments underneath like this. And he says when I enter. I want all
talking ceased. Everybody come to attention. Your back away from the back
of the chair. And he said, uh, in my band, if anybody talks after I get up
on the podium, he's given two weeks notice and then absolute perfect
discipline. And of course, before you get in the band, you have to pass
very strict tests. He had finest players in the world, you know. Herbert
Clark was the first player I ever heard of, received a $1,000 a week for
playing.
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:42.000
Levy: Really? And those days. Yeah, that's a that's an amazing $50,000 a
year.
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:47.000
McVicker: No doubt he didn't make that first started. But but I was
towards the end.
00:30:47.000 --> 00:31:12.000
Levy: But obviously it was popular enough to support it. Yes. Yeah I know
of one person who played in John Philip Sousa's band, Meredith Wilson. I
remember hearing a recording they played occasionally on the 4th of July,
and he he reminisced about being in the band, and I think he played the
flute, but I'm not sure. But, uh, he he did. I remember he played a flute.
Yeah.
00:31:12.000 --> 00:32:12.000
McVicker: I was, uh, in the band.
