WEBVTT
00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:18.000
Maurice Levy: This is a continuation of an interview with Dorothy Demmler
for the Oral History of Music in Pittsburgh project on August 8th, 1991. We
were talking about her a while. Or did you want to continue?
00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:39.000
DDemmler: Some other people that that Oscar had at Fifth Avenue High
School, there were quite a number of people who played for him in the Fifth
Avenue Orchestra, who went on to be professional musicians, played in the
Firestone Hour Symphony in New York and in The.
00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.000
Levy: Telephone Hour?
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:49.000
Demmler: and in the Pittsburgh Symphony. Oh, one in particular, I do
remember. Do you know the name Robert Bloom, an oboe player?
00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:53.000
Levy: Oh, yes. Robert Bloom is an uncle of a very good friend of mine. Is
that.
00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:54.000
Demmler: Right? Yes.
00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.000
Levy: He went on to be in a Bach Aria group.
00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:38.000
Demmler: Yes. All right. He was playing, I think, some stringed
instrument, maybe cello or. Right. And he said, oh, Mr. Demmer, couldn't,
couldn't I have another instrument, could I? Maybe. Could I try the oboe?
There happened to be an oboe that wasn't being used. Oscars went eight
years certain. So he gave it to him. He took it home and he said that he
came back. He doesn't know how he did it, but he was able to play the oboe
almost without any instruction. He just took to it right away. By the way,
did you know what his nickname was then?
00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.000
Levy: Uh, somebody told me. Cookie.
00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:43.000
Demmler: Cookie! Bloom.
00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:45.000
Levy: Yeah.
00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.000
Demmler: Well, uh.
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:50.000
Levy: He was very, very, uh, highly. It was one of the great oboe players
in America. Yes.
00:01:50.000 --> 00:02:18.000
Demmler: So he he became just so excellent. And, uh. They were saying to
me there was something about him in particular. Well, anyway, you know, he
became the first oboe in the Rochester's orchestra. And that brings in
another Pittsburgher. Robert Sprankle. You know that name?
00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:19.000
Levy: -
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:40.000
Demmler: Another? Well, he's also an oboe player. He was playing third
oboe and English horn in the Rochester Symphony when Broome was there. Then
when the. Uh, NBC Symphony was founded and.
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.000
Levy: Toscanini.
00:02:41.000 --> 00:04:36.000
Demmler: Toscanini picked. Robert Bloom to be his oboe player. The
Rochester Symphony was looking for a new first oboe, and they had auditions
for people came from all over the country to try out. And Bob Sprankle
tried out along with all these other people. When it was over. The people
who were the. Judges, the ones that had to pick somebody said we didn't
realize what we had right here. They picked Robert Sprankle for the first
oboe, and he had been with them as third oboe and English horn. Before
that, so he became the first oboe of the Rochester Symphony. He was the son
of Mr. William Sprankle, who was the principal of Carrick High School. He
had been the supervising principal of the Carrick Schools when they were a
borough, and then when Carrick came into the city, he was made principal of
Carrick High School. My father, who had been a supervisor in. Other.
Allegheny County schools had to choose between. Staying out of the system
as a supervisor. Or if he came into the system, Pittsburgh. He could be a
teacher of music in Carrick High School. He would have liked to have
continued as a supervisor. At that time. He had Carrick and Mount Lebanon,
where we are now. He asked the Mount Lebanon School Board if they couldn't
please use him as a full time supervisor. They said, oh no, we're not ready
to have a full time music supervisor.
00:04:36.000 --> 00:06:23.000
Demmler: And look how big Mount Lebanon has grown now. But anyway, as a
result, my dad stayed in. The city in part of the city. And so he was a
teacher of music in high school, where Mr. Sprankle was the principal. But
the two families had been friends even even before we moved to Carrick. I
can remember the Sprankles coming to. McKeesport to visit us there. But
anyway, uh. So there was that association of the families and of the
players. So Bob. Bob had been a. An oboe player in the Pittsburgh schools
before he went on to. Oh, and that was another thing. He was going to be a
an engineer or something like that, go to Tech and take an engineering
course. But he was one of the ones who went to the eastern music camp that
I told you about. And there he met Howard Hanson and changed his mind and
went to Eastman School of Music instead of to Tech. And that's how he got
up in that area and got into the Rochester Symphony and so on. But. uh You
know, the Carl Haas programs? Yeah. Well, when I was listening to his
program and he had. Something being played by Bob Sprankle on his program,
and he gave him a very, very high rating. He says he's one of the best oboe
players I have ever heard. And that was Carl Haas.
00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:27.000
Levy: And that's quite a recognition.
00:06:27.000 --> 00:07:06.000
Demmler: But Bob died a couple of years ago. And. If there's one member of
his family still living and I know her, she's over in Copeland Oaks in
Sebring, Ohio. But he had a sister who was a very fine pianist, and she
taught piano down in Coral Gables, Florida. That was Esther Sprankle. So.
You know. When you first talked about coming over and talking, I hadn't
thought about Bob, but.
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.000
Levy: Those things.
00:07:07.000 --> 00:08:13.000
Demmler: Because he was a friend of Earl Wilds, too. They were about
about the same time. Oh, what? I was also going to say the number of people
that Oscar could name, I don't remember all their names. There was a Harry
Asinski and somebody by the name of Hoffman that played violin that went
into. Oh, and Lomask, did you know? What was his name? Lomask. He was. I
think he was a concertmaster of that early Pittsburgh Symphony, if I'm not
mistaken. Yeah. But that was the era in which there were so many young
people who were seriously studying their instrument. I mean, they really
and they got real encouragement from their families to, you know, to
practice and to continue taking lessons and so on. And they became really.
00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:42.000
Levy: Course it made it the fact that the the home encouraged music, music
education, I'm sure, enhanced public education, musical education. And when
when your husband became, did he you recall that he noticed the the what
were the changes during his tenure as, uh, instrumental director? Was it
pretty much the of course, he was there during the war, wasn't he? Was
there.
00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.000
Demmler: Oh, yeah. You know. Yes. In the 40s.
00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:56.000
Levy: And the 40s. Mhm. Uh, the Pittsburgh Public Schools, would you
characterize them as saying they were very pro music that is that as
opposed to other places.
00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:01.000
Demmler: I would say under Doctor Earhart build it up beautifully. Yes.
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:06.000
Levy: And the school board pretty much supported him. Would you say that's
true?
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:27.000
Demmler: I would say. Putting on these music festivals and so on. I mean,
he had to get the approval, of course, to do things. But Oscar started the
All-City elementary orchestra. I told you, Doctor Earhart had had a high
school orchestra, but it was Oscar who started the All-City elementary,
right?
00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:37.000
Levy: He had no he had no particular budgetary problems. That is, if he
wanted a reasonable amount of money for a particular project, the school
board granted, it was that generally the policy.
00:09:37.000 --> 00:10:11.000
Demmler: I don't recall hearing about that, but just a funny little
sideline on that. Uh, they got word one time that the I guess it was the
some of the armed services were getting rid of some instruments that they
had, and the word got to the schools and they sent somebody to. To buy some
of these instruments and on the on the list of instruments available. There
were so many first violins and so many second violins.
00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.000
Levy: How could they tell the difference?
00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.000
Demmler: And that was one of the things Oscar told me about that.
00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:28.000
Levy: That's that's strict. That's really army stuff, isn't it? Now, did
they have a right handed violin and a left hand? No.
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:41.000
Demmler: Speaking of that, there was a little youngster that played in, I
think, in Oscar's junior high All-City who actually did play. In shifted
and they had to string up the they.
00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:43.000
Levy: Strung up the other direction, the.
00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:56.000
Demmler: Other way. And he played it. That way. So there can be such a
thing. A right handed violin, I guess, if you put it.
00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:17.000
Levy: Uh, so the public schools, at least in my memory, they. There was a
lot of emphasis in the schools, uh, more on the orchestral and more, but
less so than on the band kind of thing. As many of the suburban schools
have. Would you say that's true? Uh, because the cities did not emphasize
things like football.
00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:29.000
Demmler: I guess it was more or less up to the individual school. What the
interest of, for instance, Carl McVicker always had a good band out of
Westinghouse, but he also had the orchestra.
00:11:29.000 --> 00:12:26.000
Levy: I can remember I was at Westinghouse with Carl and uh, uh, he had
that reputation, I remember. And uh, the year I was there. They. We never
had enough money to to, uh, to send the students to the, uh, uh, state
orchestral competition. And one year they had it in California. Pa well,
that was close enough. So he got some automobiles together, and he took the
kids over, and Westinghouse won the state orchestra, and everybody was
absolutely amazed. And I remember Carl was very angry. He said, we always
had a good orchestra here, except that the people, the band is more
visible. Uh huh. But that was a quite a, uh, an achievement for because
they didn't I don't think that the, uh, cities like York and Lancaster were
always. They spent enormous sums of money for the competition.
00:12:26.000 --> 00:14:28.000
Demmler: Um, Oscar was not particularly a band person, that he was more
orchestra. But when he went to Perry High School. They they had a band
there and he had that was part of his work then to lead the band. And that
was one of the years that they had one of these band festivals out at
Forbes Field. And Perry went into the Oh. And there was one young man who
had been playing in the band under the former teacher. And. He objected to
some of Oscar's methods. Oscar would have them, uh, tune up on Bach
chorales and things like that. And, uh. Anyway, this boy got, uh, kind of
turned off, and he. He left the band. He dropped out. Then this band
festival came up and the Perry band went into it. And Frank Simon was the
judge at that time. And he gave Perry band the highest rating, put them
number one. He said. They sounded more like an orchestra than any band I
ever heard. And. Even though they weren't a big band, they weren't as big
as some of the others, and they may not have looked as flashy or something
like that, but the way they played impressed him so much that he. That boy
that dropped out of the band was so crestfallen that he wasn't in that
prize winning band, but it just shows the the Oscars approach to it. It was
so different from the ordinary bandmaster. That he brought out something.
Something else in the group that impressed.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:48.000
Levy: In other words, he tried. As you mentioned, he he he wanted to
expose the youngsters to classical music. Through this medium. Is that
right? Evidently. And as opposed to just the the standard March music, uh,
because there is a there is a large amount of literature for the concert
band.
00:14:48.000 --> 00:15:28.000
Demmler: They, they probably had to play a march during the. Competition
at some point, but whatever they did, they did it so that it impressed the
judges. So that was that was his main experience with band, as I remember,
because whenever there was a. An All-City. Group like an All-City band. I
don't think Oscar ever conducted that. He'd have somebody else conduct the
band. He conducted the orchestra. It was meant to begin with.
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:33.000
Levy: Well, of course you. What experiences did you have with the various
universities?
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:36.000
Demmler: Well, not much. I never went on. I never got beyond. But.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:16:15.000
Levy: But was there any influence, uh, in terms of the various music
schools on the that you noted on the on the musical life? You recall
anything at all? Did the youngsters, uh, was there any kind of
cross-pollination between, uh, the secondary and the college levels? I
don't recall any, I don't know, I wonder if you were aware of any where
they would come in to the schools. They now, of course, they come in and
they're involved with the science and they're trying to upgrade. And so we
have. But that wasn't true with the music, was it? I don't think so. The,
the, the, the city schools are pretty independent weren't they?
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:39.000
Demmler: The main the main contact was uh with practice teachers now. Oh
yes. The now there was only the Ben who died not too long ago and she
followed the. The Doctor Earhart had some connection with, uh, with Tech, I
think, because of getting the practice. Yeah.
00:16:39.000 --> 00:17:04.000
Levy: Well, what was what was the experience of the the the. Well, it had
to be cooperative between training student teachers in the public schools.
I mean, I know that Duquesne and Carnegie Tech and Pitt, whatever, sent
practice teachers into the school. Student teachers? Yes. Do you recall any
any well, experiences along that line?
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:22.000
Demmler: I don't know specific experiences, but I just know that that went
on and. That's where that's where some of the people from Tech or Duquesne
actually would come in to the schools to see how their practice teachers
were doing in the Pittsburgh schools.
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Levy: But they were on a supervisory basis, as well as the.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:18:57.000
Demmler: And one of the one of the people who did that. This goes back
pretty far too Ebba Lindbom Houggy. H o u g g y. She was Ebba Lindbom when
I got over there. She was one of the music supervisors. And that was at the
time when married women were not allowed to teach in the schools. Well, she
got married, but she didn't tell until she had a daughter. I remember
actually going to see her in the hospital and taking. Uh, something from
Mrs. Earhart to her. But at that point she had to get out of supervising
for the schools. But very shortly after that, she became Duquesne
University's. Person in charge of the music student teachers. And so she
was back in the schools as a Duquesne. Employee. But she was helping their
student teachers in the school. Then there were the people from Tech. Miss
Harbor Kennelly and Susan Canfield were the ones that were prominent when I
first started to work for Doctor Earhart, and they supervised the practice
teachers from Tech that came into our public schools.
00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.000
Levy: You're there.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.000
Demmler: Was there was that cooperation? Yes.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:35.000
Levy: You weren't aware you don't have any direct memory or do you have a
direct memory of. Because sometimes I can I can put a personal note. There
was some kind of a contentious relationship between the universities and
the public schools in terms of what was done in the classroom. That is a
supervisor. You don't recall anything like that happened because I've had I
know that their supervisors from the university would come in and it would
be a little bit contrary to what the the public school teacher would be
telling me.
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:45.000
Demmler: Because I'm sure there was a quite a good rapport between Doctor
Earhart and these people from both the Tech and Duquesne.
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.000
Levy: So. So. Generally, it was a it was a rather pleasant relationship.
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:54.000
Demmler: As far as the music. Yes. Yes. What what happened in the other
fields, I don't know.
00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:03.000
Levy: So the the Carnegie Tech and Duquesne and Pitt were generally said
that they must have been satisfied or you'd have known about it because
that that.
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:08.000
Demmler: I never heard of any, uh, any problems there.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:49.000
Levy: Because those problems occasionally I can tell from personal
experience that they occasionally existed where they would have some kind
of theoretical idea of how to do it. And somebody who taught in a public
school would say that it looks good in a book, but it doesn't work with
public school youngsters, as you can imagine. But it wasn't a common thing.
But occasionally it would occur. But evidently there was a cooperative
attitude. Um. Did the superintendent, Doctor Graham, and then of course,
then Doctor Dimmick was next. Right, right. He succeeded Doctor Graham. Uh,
they were generally, uh, protective.
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.000
Demmler: Come right after.
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.000
Levy: Well, I don't know. There may have been one between them.
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.000
Demmler: Well, there were several. There was Gross and there was Hill.
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:13.000
Levy: Oh Gross is after Dimmick when Gross is after him. Hill. Might have
been before Dimmick. Dimmick was there in the 50s. I know, 40s and 50s. And
I think Ben Graham went into the one that's before my time. But he was
there. Was he there in the 30s and 40s?
00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:20.000
Demmler: Well, he was there when, uh, and I don't see Doctor Davidson was
there when I first started in 28.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Levy: Right.
Demmler: And then and then Graham came after that. I don't know how long
he. I forget when it was that he passed away. Uh.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Levy: Dimmick and Dimmick. Was replaced by Doctor Gross. And then, uh, and
then of course, after that was, uh, uh. Sidney, Marland.
00:21:39.000 --> 00:22:11.000
Demmler: Marland. Marland. Oh, yes. And of course I was out. I was I see I
left in 47 when I got married. I resigned right away. But speaking of the
Doctor Graham, his wife, was a member of Tuesday musical club and. She was
one of the ones that I thought was going to be playing viola with me in
that section, but she wanted to play violin, so she went over to first
violin. Left me alone. And
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.000
Levy: You eere in a rather exposed position, weren't you?
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:25.000
Demmler: But. But Mrs. Graham was a very, very nice person to. To be
associated with.
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:30.000
Levy: Ah, what can you do? What memories do you have of the Chamber Music
Society?
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:40.000
Demmler: Oscar and I attended them all the time, and we enjoyed that. In
fact, I think he liked the chamber music. Best of any of the programs we
went to.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:53.000
Levy: Did the, uh, I remember seeing I know the chamber music that they
were sponsored by. And they have a list of the universities. Uh, what kind
of was there any relationship between the Chamber Music Society and the
public schools?
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.000
Demmler: Not that I know of.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.000
Levy: Unless maybe they gave them tickets for the students.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:16.000
Demmler: I wouldn't even know that because, uh. If I'm not mistaken, that
even was formed after I left. I think. I don't know how old it is, but I
don't think it went back to while I was working at the board.
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:24.000
Levy: You recall about the Y Music Society? Well, you attended concerts
here.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:37.000
Demmler: Yes. My teacher, Gwen Treasure, made it possible for me to go.
And here, Nathan Milstein at the, I think, his first appearance in
Pittsburgh.
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:47.000
Levy: That's in the 20s because they started in 1926 and he was one this
was one of the first places he played in the United States.
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:48.000
Demmler: I remember that.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.000
Levy: You must have been excited.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.000
Demmler: Oh, it was wonderful.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:55.000
Levy: He always. He always played a Bach partita, didn't he?
00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.000
Demmler: That. That sounds very, very possible. Uh huh.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:07.000
Levy: I know I saw him 2 or 3 times, and he always scheduled the.
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:14.000
Demmler: Yes, that the Y series I thought was excellent. I didn't get to
go all the time, but any other.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:43.000
Levy: Questions are the. What can you tell me about your experience with
music liturgical music in your church? Do you do you have any, uh,
particular experiences with that? Because this history we would like to
cover all aspects, not just the classical. We're going to do jazz and we're
going to do, uh, liturgical music and folk music, because that's all part
of the musical life of Pittsburgh.
00:24:43.000 --> 00:25:03.000
Demmler: Well, my, uh, my father was the choir director at Concord
Presbyterian Church even before we moved to Carrick. I guess that's one of
the reasons we moved from McKeesport, because so much of his work brought
him down there, and he had to travel by public transportation, trains and
streetcar.
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.000
Levy: Yes, yes. My.
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:09.000
Demmler: Um, it must.
Levy: Have been over an hour and a half, I don't know.
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:26.000
Demmler: But many a time I can remember his having to run from the house
down this little path that went down over the hillside and of all things,
to Demmler station at the bottom of the hill, named for Oscar's family.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.000
Levy: Really? Was he from McKeesport?
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.000
Demmler: Uh, no, he wasn't himself, but there were enough.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:33.000
Levy: Uh, there were Demmlers in the area.
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:57.000
Demmler: Yeah. In fact, the house next to our place. It's on the hillside.
We lived on what's called Cliff Street, and it was a cliff. And then the
house next over with a mud road that you went in by buggy. Had a turret and
we called it Demmler Castle, and that was his uncle's place.
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:14.000
Levy: And you ended up with Demmler as your name? That's a remarkable
coincidence. But what kind of a setup would it be? Just. I would try, maybe
try to capture the flavor of the music in the church, how it was organized
and so forth.
00:26:14.000 --> 00:27:04.000
Demmler: Well, we had a all volunteer choir for most of the time, but
there was one period in which they engaged a, a quartet, a paid quartet,
and there was a man in Pittsburgh, and I don't know, I can't give you his
name that. Sort of ran this idea, and he had quartettes in a number of
churches. And. So during that time, of course. My father was not there as
the choir director because this quartet was in charge. But that didn't last
for too many years. And then they went back to having a volunteer choir
again. And for a part of the time, my dad was back again.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:09.000
Levy: Well, what did he do besides being choir director?
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.000
Demmler: You mean at the church?
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:44.000
Levy: Yes.
Demmler: Well, he had this little Sunday school orchestra that I
mentioned, and. But that was the extent of his responsibilities. But we had
the rehearsals in our home. We always had refreshments for the kids. We
provided the music. And for for doing that out of his, um, what he got
monthly for the choir. I think $10 was allowed as taking care of the
orchestra.
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:49.000
Levy: $10, $10 a month. That was the budget.
00:27:49.000 --> 00:28:41.000
Demmler: Uh, because after he when he left and I kept it going and they
transferred the $10 to me and somebody objected. That should be a voluntary
thing. You shouldn't get paid for that. So they cut down and cut off the
$10. But what they didn't realize, and I never brought it up to them. They
had a little, uh, a little choir. Children's choir. Well, they put in the
budget for that choir. Something like $50 for the year. For refreshments
from time to time or and they had to get them choir robes and things like
that. But there was nothing in the budget for the orchestra. But there.
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000
Levy: How often did you rehearse?
00:28:43.000 --> 00:29:10.000
Demmler: Um. I think we did it once every three weeks because we had three
departments in the Sunday school, and we rotated playing for each
department. And we had a special number. And then we played it for three
weeks. So I think I think we rehearsed once every three weeks.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:16.000
Levy: But did you rehearse? on, some weeknight. Is that it. Yeah. Mhm.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:41.000
Demmler: And at our house. And and as I say, we provided the refreshments
and never thought anything about that at all. But here they were
complaining about. Giving us $10 a month for the orchestra, but they could
put it in the budget for the choir and provide them with the choir robes,
where the orchestra didn't have any special garb or anything like that.
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:47.000
Levy: You obviously didn't have the political power that the choir had.
00:29:47.000 --> 00:30:47.000
Demmler: But and then then they uh, uh, really canceled it out when they
changed the schedule. And instead of having an opening worship service, and
we used to go up with the orchestra for a. And half an hour before time to
begin. So the kids would get, uh, instruments out and in tune, and we'd go
over the number and then be ready at 9:30 to, uh, play for the hymns and
play the special number, usually probably during the offering time or
something like that.
