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Snow: This is, this is tape two of a state and local government archives
interview with Reverend Leroy Patrick.
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Patrick: My. And I guess I was somewhat startled to find out really did
not swim in Highland Park pool when I inquired. So I went to Chris Motes,
who was in charge of the Civic Unity Council and the mayor's office. Uh,
which would have been set up sometime during the 40s because it was not it
was not a new office. He had been there a couple of years, as I as I
recall, because in '48 a group had been mobbed around Highland Park pool,
Henry Wallace campaign, communists, you know, but I didn't know any of
that, didn't know any of that. I was just saying, what do you mean you
don't swim there? Chris, I'm going to be taking a group into Highland Park
Pool on Saturday morning, and I want you to have as many policemen as you
think that's there for us, not get our heads bashed in. I want to get I'm
not I'm not martyr material. I don't want to be a martyr. Never sought that
role. Whoa. All right. Well, he got the whoever was in charge of the Parks
and Recreation that day, they got together. And got word to the police
department and at a meeting at the East Liberty YMCA. Because remember, uh,
the fella who was in charge of the Parks Recreation. I can't remember his
name now, saying he'd know what was going to happen Saturday. No, he didn't
know what was going to happen. He couldn't. But I'm sitting there. I knew I
was going to have me going to swim.
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Patrick: I'm still, I'm bravo, you know? Saturday morning I went. We had
agreed, my young people and I we'd meet at the pool. We'd meet at
Rhododendron Grove. If, you know, Highland Park there was Rhododendron
Grove, Golden Grove, then there was another grove. Then there's the pool on
the left, Rhododendron Grove is on the right. We'd meet there and go from
there to the pool and we'd meet at I think we said 1:00, any rate. I went
to the pool. A battalion of police. There was police every three feet
around that pool. God. I'm waiting for my young people to show. 1:30. I'm
waiting for my young people to show. Lieutenant, where are? Where are your
people? Where are your people? I'm just hoping that the earth will just
open and swallow me up, you know? Get me out of this mess. Where am I? Oh,
I think they must have misunderstood me. Maybe they still at the grove. I
went to the Grove and there they were, about a dozen of them. How are you?
We supposed to go swimming? The girls. Oh, I don't want to go swimming. I
don't. The boys. I didn't bring my trunks. One young man, Jesse Bell, whom
I haven't seen since. There's a fellow who is on the police force now. I
don't remember who he is either, but Jesse said, I have mine. I have an
extra pair. So I grabbed him and grabbed the first fella nearest to him and
locked arms with him and said, We're going to the pool now.
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Patrick: God, it's about a good city block from the pool from Rhododendron
Grove to the pool. And the closer we got to the pool, the more those
fellows were holding back and the more I won't let go of their arms. I've
got to get somebody to the pool. One fella was like, like I am. Wonderful.
I like your suit. I never so happy to see a Black man to have that have him
with with my arms around him. We got to the pool. Policemen came into the
locker room and see that we were not attacked anything, I guess. We change
our trunks and we change into our trunks. Went through the shower, went
into the pool. And that year they had not only this pool that's there now,
but there was that whole grassy space with a wading pool for youngsters.
It's about a foot of water in it. Very nice place. I. We got into the pool
and every White kid got out of the pool. Every single one of them just left
the water and then they started taunting us. Grabbing a handful. Dirty
water, n-word* water. Policemen are in there. They're not saying anything?
Policemen outside by the fence. Inside dirty water. Well, my kids, my two
boys, I'm very grateful they could. They got up on the high dive and they
could dive into the water. I'm in the lower end there. See? Standing up,
you know, it's not it's not overly large, but it's too large for three
people.
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Patrick: Really too large for just--you felt isolated and God. But they
could swim and they'd dive and they'd go back and and as I said, this one
fellow would let. Uh. The people know there was a Black in the pool. You
see the other you to tell you know, like you wouldn't know unless you look
closely. You wouldn't. You wouldn't. You wouldn't say there's a Black in
the pool. Then at about oh, 15 to 20 minutes, they caught sight of me.
Reverend Patrick, Can we go now? Can we go? No, no, no, no, no. We'll stay
here a while they go back and start swimming again. And they swam after
about 40, 45 minutes. I'm Hey, fellas, better get ready. Get out of here,
because they'll eat all our food. So we ostentatiously went back in the
room and change and went back to Rhododendron Grove these two fellows and
I. What happened? Well, nothing happened. We just swam. And we had our
picnic and. But these two fellows never went back in the pool. Snow: They
didn't. Patrick: And none of that group ever went with me. Couldn't recruit
them. Now, I was on a spot I felt having open having had these kids that I
was obliged to try to keep this pool open. And the only way I could keep it
open would be to get people to go in with me. And so I would. I got on the
phone and got some other parents that I knew and got, oh, about a day
after.
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Patrick: The following week. Excuse me. I must have gone on 2 or 3 times.
I was able to gather a group and this was in July. And each week I would
get at least 1 or 2 groups into that pool. So just then August came and
August is my vacation month. And I promised my family and we always went
away in August. I'm glad to get out of town. The job of getting people
recruiting. Now I meet people all over town who tell me how they went in
the pool with me. I got some of the people from the labor unions, you know,
people from Club X and Club Y and I call them up. Hey, come on, Meet me at
the pool tomorrow. Okay? So because by this time, word had gotten around
that we were swimming. So it was not that they were reluctant, just that
you had to get them together. So I would I would try to have four or 5 or 6
or 8 or 10 come in the pool with me all those times when I could recruit.
And I did that for the rest of the for the rest of the month and then left
the pool and left Pittsburgh in August. Then when I got back in town. All
the social agencies says we must form a swimming pool committee. The YMCA,
the YWCA and the American Service Union and about a dozen they got. And
Winston.
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Patrick: Winston Lynch was made the chairman. I didn't know Winston Lynch.
So we must meet so we can integrate the pool next summer. Well, we met all
that winter. I mean, once a month, once every two weeks, something like
that. Talked about this strategy and that strategy. But you know, Michael.
It's like swimming. You got to jump on the water to be able to swim. You
know, you can't read a book and learn how to swim. Come the summer, none of
them want to go in the pool. I don't know. You know. They notified groups
about the pool open, and by this time, the city had put up a canvass center
all around the pool. So you couldn't see into the pool. You had to look way
under this canvas, there was canvas about, oh, about five foot or over the
canvas? Because the committee had, all right, they said. And they had the
policeman there. And the pool opened. Well I, not determined that this
thing is going to succeed, had taken the precaution of recruiting some
people to go on the pool with me. But none of them came. None of the
committee came for 25 days. The first 25 days. And that's--that number is
etched in my mind. I got somebody, two, three, five, six to go to that pool
with me every day for 25 days. I--toward the oh, I say third week or so, I
could see young Black [??] looking under the fence, under the canvas, you
know, and they could see Black legs.
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Patrick: Or if a fellow went on a high dive, you could see a
Black...fellow. So these are youngsters whom I--who are in the park. And
one day I was sitting on my church steps and a kid passed. I was then at
Polson and Luna. That's no longer--the building's been demolished long ago
by redevelopment. It was Paulson Avenue and Luna Street. Sitting on the
steps on a hot afternoon, and I saw a boy come by with a towel under his
arm. He must have been about 11. I said, Where are you going, son? I'm
going swimming. Where are you going? Highland Park and indignation in his
voice. Such a foolish question. I said to myself, Lord, the battle is won.
The battle is won. So I went out to one of these kids in the pool. Battle
was won, word had gotten around that you could swim in the pool and I
didn't have to go in the pool. I went, I think I went in twice after that
during that summer. The last time I went in, somebody stole my towel.
[laughs] Stole my damn towel. But I didn't care. I got--the battle was won.
Two weeks or so after the 20--into the 25 days, I had a call from Mrs.
Reynolds. Reverend Patrick, they won't let us swim in our pool. You know?
What? The Paulson pool. If you know, Lemington Home is on Lemington Avenue
off Lincoln Avenue. Lemington Home. Lemington School. Lemington Home.
Paulson runs out at Lemington, it starts way back.
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Patrick: In or near or near--as you get across the line, Avenue Bridge. In
about a block away from Lemington, two blocks, maybe from Lemington. There
is a a community pool, and they call it the Paulson Avenue pool because on
Paulson Avenue, the youngsters, because it's a small pool, the youngsters
swim from, I think from 1 to 3 or something like that then and then another
age group from--as I recall, this was years ago now I'm trying to remember
it's 4 to 6 and then the adults from six on to close, I guess 9, 8 or 9. I
said I didn't know about the pool, but no word has gotten around. Call Rob
[chimes sound] and Patrick, you see? You know, the trouble being a leader,
as I said, as I said many a times, sometimes you got to lead and you don't
want to lead. You don't feel you rather just be one of the crowd. So I went
to the--I said, all right, let us go in the pool. Well, my--I'll get some
people. Well, of course the only person she could get was her daughter who
would have been, what, a late teenager, I guess Jerry was about, oh, 18,
19, I suppose. Anyway, she'd be eligible for the evening, you see, she
could not have gone in the afternoon [unintelligble] and I couldn't have
gone. I didn't, I wasn't trying to get anybody to go in the afternoon.
Jerry, again, is not color of your suit, but very dark.
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Patrick: So we got there and we went in the pool. She went in the dressing
room, got in then, and I got in. Well, it's about 7:00, I guess now, maybe.
It's light, you know, summer days and all the girls left the pool, you
know, and they got--got out of the pool, didn't leave. They didn't leave
the area, but they got out. And then the boys, it must have been about 8 or
9 of them remained in the pool and would come by and swimming, but really
splashing us, splashing, splashing. It finally got so bad that they were
splashing each other. I said, Jerry, you've got to come on, get on. We got
on the edge of the pool like this and got our heads down while you sit over
there and the other gang. And they splashed us and splashed us and splashed
us. I didn't know what to do. The policeman was the one, was standing
outside, but nobody did anything. There were no worries because by this
time, the whole fence around that pool was 3 or 4ft deep with people. No
Blacks, no Italians, primarily it was an Italian community then. And
something happened out there. I've never known what happened on Paulson
Avenue, but the crowd sort of leaned and started down that way. So I assume
a fight of something must have developed. I'm not sure what it was because
the crowd which is standing here started moving in that direction and the
boys stopped splashing us, hey, let's go see.
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Patrick: They went out to see what was going on. I said, Jerry, let's get
out of here. Let's get out. Because at that time, the girls had left the
pool, also. She went to her room and her locker room and got dressed. I
went into my room and started getting dressed. The boys came back while I
was getting dressed. Startled to see me. And I'm somewhat apprehensive.
About again, about about about 3 or 4 of them. All of them didn't come
back, I mean at that particular time. Then I was busy changing my into my
clothes and one of them grabbed. I don't remember the pants or what and
take it home and take it. You going to take it to the shower? Well, I guess
it was spontaneous without thinking. What the hell? I'll start cussing, I'm
not a cussing man. But they were startled, even as I was startled to hear
myself. [laughs] But it meant he dropped what he had. And I picked it up,
put it back on the bench, and continued my dressing as nonchalantly and as
casually as I could. Got myself together, got my thing. And while they were
kind of consulting, what should they do? You know, this is unexpected
reaction on my part. And finally, when I got out, Jerry lived just--she was
living within walking distance. So she got out and went to her home. I got
out and got in my car. Because I had that drive. It's too far for me to
walk. I never intended to walk and started up Paulson to Lincoln.
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Patrick: Then I saw one of them get--some of them get in a car and start
behind me. And I'm up Paulson to Lemington and I made the right on
Lemington and you get down Lemington, Lincoln Avenue, it's a traffic light.
And I turned right on the traffic light and the red light and they stopped
for the red light. And I put on the speed and I got home and put my car in
the garage and I wanted to know what's going on. And that was...the end of
that. I got in the house and I started calling some friends and White
friends as well as Black friends. You've got to meet them at the pool
tomorrow at Paulson Pool, tomorrow night at 6:00. I had some White friends
we met there. Margarete Hofer and her husband was was one of those.
Margarete Hofer was--Larry just died about two months ago and Margarete had
a very serious operation. So anyway, she and 2 or 3 other, Jim Miller and
some other--then I had some of my Black--couple people from the
congregation came with me, Theodora Miller and his daughter and and their
niece. So we went into the pool. Everybody left the pool and left the pool
to us. But then they started throwing stones. You've heard that I was
stoned. People confuse the stone with Highland Park--it's not Highland
Park. Snow: Okay. Patrick: It's at Paulson pool. There were too many
policemen around Highland for us to be stoned.
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Snow: The whole time that you had the 25 parties--
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Patrick: This is. This is also the 25 days. You see, [simultaneously
speaking] there were always in the afternoon, but this is the evening, so
I'm not so but they started throwing stones, but the fence is so high that
the stones couldn't hit us. You couldn't throw at you--you could see the
stone coming. And only one of them was--one youngster, well, Theodore
Green's niece was struck, not really hurt bad, but the stone struck her.
And they kept throwing until we finally decided--so we stayed there. They
didn't throw us out because, as I said, you couldn't, you couldn't, you
couldn't, throw--couldn't have to dodge them. You just had to watch them
coming. Then when we finally left, they had to close the pool to get the
stones out. There was too much. And we got back. The pool then was closed
for several days. Again, I'm on Chris Moat, you've got to get a Black and
there is lifeguard Alexander Joseph Allen, who was the executive director
of the Urban League. Handsome fella taller than I...built. Also had a life
saving--what is the Red Cross life saving certificate that allowed him to
be a life saver? He got permission from his board to go to Paulson pool in
the afternoons, and he became the lifeguard for Paulson Pool, which meant
that there was a Black lifeguard additional to White sitting up on the
seats there. Which told the Black kids they could come into the pool. And
so when the pools reopened with him sitting there, the pool became
integrated. Well, then he--without any problem after that. But that was the
stoning part.
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Snow: Had Chris Moats intervened too? Patrick: Huh? Snow: Had Chris Moats
intervened too?
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Patrick: I assume that he must have gotten the police there. Maybe they
got themselves out after they knew that there was, there was this trouble.
Interesting. No, the papers never carried any of this trouble. Oh, and the
television station never came out. Of course, this is '51 '52 television.
You--they weren't as savvy as they are now. And I'm assuming because then
that, that winter, the swimming pool committee was, I guess, disbanded
because there was a--I got a--there was Mr. Lynch, who was chairperson
received an award. And I received an award for swimming, getting the pool
guests. Anyway, I have the award. I don't. And then I also received
received an award from the Livingston. No. James and Rachel Livingston
Foundation. Now, the other was a--was a water park, but James and
Livingston Foundation was an award of $250--200. Oh, now, that was an award
that I can appreciate. Oh, Lord. James and Rachel, I don't know where that
foundation still exists. I have not heard of. It was a small--Livingston
Steel on the South Side, if you know that--Livingston. It was their
foundation. Aaron Livingston is still alive, I believe. And now I think
they were giving me an award for, you know, this is '50. You see, we were I
done the '51 we--some of winter, '51 winter, then January of 52. Summer of
'52. The 25 days the pool is integrated. Swimming pool committee has done
its work. I've done it with Paulson Pool.
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Patrick: So the '52 the fall, we have this big meeting at the William Penn
and everyone can congratulate themselves because we have integrated
swimming pools. And we had a great time, we had a good meal, I had a--which
was I didn't have to pay for, had my wife and she's looking pretty that
evening. And then I get this check, which made me happy. Someone asked me,
what did you--were you required? I said, the check was given to me and I
kept it and I spent it. I didn't give it to any charity. [laughs] I was a
charity. Anyway, that was the story. But by this time I'm known in the
Black community. The person to call is Reverend Patrick. He called the
NAACP. I was asked on that. Fall of '52 to join the board. If I remember
the board, I was on the board. So now legitimately they can refer matters
to Reverend Patrick. So then I went into bowling alleys and to restaurants
and and it kind of public accommodations, you know. People call me. I had
energy. I wanted to know what happened. I don't have any energy anymore. I
don't have any energy. You know, I have to take a nap in the afternoon. But
I had boundless energy. And I think people were were--appreciative. This is
not my job. Public accommodations. Bowling alleys. Swimming pools. My job
was to pastor the church. And to pastor the church.
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Patrick: Was a full time job. But I did that at least there were never any
complaints came to me from the session. Well, my elders, the people, you
know. But you got to do you got to visit the sick. You got to go to the
hospital. You got to preach on Sundays. Some of them couldn't care less
what I was doing duing the week. You can hear about Reverend Patrick
[laughs], but on Sunday morning you have to be in that pulpit and you have
to say something. You can't wing it. You know, you may wing it, but you
can't wing it. So that. But. But now--Joe Allen got a presented it to his
board nationally that he had integrated Highland Park Pool. I saw the
report put out by the National Urban League when I visited my brother in
law last summer. He showed me the annual and the report annual report of
the Urban League, National Urban League. And there they are. The Pittsburgh
branch had integrated Highland Park. Well, Joe was getting his mileage out
of it. You know, he had he had played a part. He was you know, he was
lifeguard. He was in that batch which went with me into Highland Park. But
I understand that the year in '48, he may have been in the group which went
with Jim Jordan and others when they had the problem. I do not know that I
was not around because I didn't come to Pittsburgh until '51 and every
group I saw another report, annual report, and they'd integrated Highland
Park Pool.
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Patrick: Well, they had been a member of the Highland Park Pool Swimming
Committee. So I guess the pool. But I became but that is their job. My
point is that it was his job to do that. My job was to pastor Bethesda. And
I suspect to this day, when people I get I, I have more plaques, I have 50
plus 60 plaques that have come to me over the years because then you went
into the 60s and all of that work that I did in the 60s and then the school
board and I got on that, I know all of that stuff, but I had. Parades
around the school board and integration. But here again, you see I'm
pastoring a church. That's my job. Not integrating schools of Pittsburgh.
You know, they don't mind what I did it. And so today I'm something of an
icon, I guess. And that's why you wanted to interview view me. Because I'm
if you want to write the story of civil rights in Pittsburgh, then you got
to include me in some portion of it, you see. So that's that's. But that's
how I got started. And I did not intend--I didn't come here with the
intention of doing it, but things [chimes sound] coalesced and I found I
ended up doing it. All of those kinds of things.
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Snow: In the history of the Urban League, written by Art Edmonds, they
describe a lawsuit against the city for-- Patrick: What? Snow: They
described a lawsuit that was launched against the city.
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Patrick: The--I didn't go to Corrigan Pool. I haven't mentioned Corrigan
Pool. Snow: Okay. Patrick: Corrigan Pool's in South Park.
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Snow: Excuse me one moment.
