WEBVTT
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Speaker1: Okay. Could you give me your name, please?
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Speaker2: Joseph Saul.
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Speaker1: Let's say you and your age.
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Speaker2: He was born in 1904.
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Speaker1: 71. And where were you born?
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Speaker2: I was born in Poland. But at that time, Poland was under Russia.
So Poland in 1793 was divided in three parts. One part went to Russia. One
part went to Germany. One part went to Austria. See, in our part where I
came was Russia. And therefore, while it was Poland, all the education
received was in Russia.
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Speaker1: I see. What? What what exact region or village did you come
from?
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Speaker2: The name of the town is Suwalki.
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Speaker1: And your mother's maiden name?
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Speaker2: Bernstein.
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Speaker1: Were there any name changes?
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Speaker2: Yeah, my. I changed my name. I mean, I didn't change it because
my brothers were here before, and they changed from soul to Saul.
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Speaker1: Okay. And your ethnic origin and identity. Okay. What languages
do you speak and understand?
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Speaker2: Of course, the first language in the house. We spoke Yiddish
when we started to go to school. We were prepared for our religion, and
that's in Hebrew. In the school we also learned Russian because that was
the official language of the country since we lived with the Poles. We
spoke Polish and since we were only six miles from the German border and we
used to go to Germany for the doctors and everything, all of us spoke
German. Yeah.
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Speaker1: Okay. What is your occupation?
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Speaker2: Now I'm retired, but for 48 years, I was the manager of a men's
clothing store in Pittsburgh.
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Speaker1: Uh huh. Where was that?
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Speaker2: On Fifth Avenue.
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Speaker1: Okay. And your religion? Are you Orthodox, conservative or
reform?
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Speaker2: No, I have my own religion. Okay. Would you like.
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Speaker1: To? Yeah, we'll go into that later, I think. Um. Well, why. Why
don't you tell me about it now?
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Speaker2: See, I'll tell you a story which will show what my religion is.
Okay. See, there is a custom among the Jews that the four Jewish New Year's
and that Saturday they go at midnight for services in a small town.
Everybody went to the services except the rabbi. Where is the rabbi? The
rabbi goes to heaven because he is going to speak to God. Since there are
so many poor and sick and needy people. And after all, who will speak to
God, if not the rabbi? And this was the belief for many, many years when I
came to the town and I heard the story, I decided to find out what the
rabbi does. And Saturday afternoon, I came in and I was hiding in the house
and watching the 11:00. All the household went to the synagogue except the
rabbi remained. When everybody left, he took off his rabbinical clothes and
he put on clothes of a peasant and he took a rope and a hatchet and he left
the house. I was hesitating, but I followed him when I he left the house
and he left the town. And he came to a small forest. And there he gathered
wood together, put it on the rope on the shoulder and carried it back to
the town. It came to a house and he knocked at the door and the voice of a
sick woman asked, Who is it there? And he says, This is John from Decency's
village. What do you want? He says, I have some wood for sale. Or she says,
I could use it, but I don't have the money. She says, Don't worry, they'll
pay me later. And he opened the door and he came into the house and he left
the wood there and he made a fire. And while the fire was burning, he said
the prayers. The next day when I heard the story that the rabbi goes to
heaven, I said, and maybe higher than heaven. In other words, the most
important thing is not praying but doing good things for human beings. And
this is my philosophy.
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Speaker1: I see. So you don't actually identify with any of the major
trends? Okay. Um, did you always did you always follow this kind of
religion?
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Speaker2: Since I was living 14 years old.
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Speaker1: You were taught it by your parents. You were taught it by your
parents?
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Speaker2: No, my parents were orthodox. I see. But you see, I grew up
during the First World War and we were under the German occupation and we
saw the problems, the time of the German occupation and of the war. So even
when we were very, very young, we were thinking about important questions.
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Speaker1: Okay. What is your political affiliation?
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Speaker2: You mean in the United States? Yeah. I was the chairman of the
Independent Voters for Roosevelt in 1944, and I always support progressive
parties. In 1948, I supported Henry Wallace for the presidency.
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Speaker1: What about now? Do you.
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Speaker2: Know? I mean, after all, there are Southern Democrats that are
worse than Republicans and there are like Mr. Schweiker in Pennsylvania is
a very progressive. And I would vote for Mr. Schweiker and I did vote for
him.
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Speaker1: Who did you vote for? When Eugene Debs was running for president
in 19 or who did you owe your family, wasn't he? Was your family here then?
Yeah. Who did they vote for? In 1921.
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Speaker2: In 1921, I was in. I couldn't vote yet.
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Speaker1: What about your family? Do you remember any They.
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Speaker2: My parents came here also in 1920, so we didn't start to work
until about 1928.
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Speaker1: Okay. How long have you lived in the Pittsburgh area?
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Speaker2: 55 years.
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Speaker1: And are you, uh. What organizations for Jewish people do you
belong to?
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Speaker2: Well, I came. I belong to the labor Zionists. See, the Zionist
movement started in 1897, but under the influence of the different
socialist movements. Also, Zionism took a form of socialism. And an
organization like the Workers of Zion called Zion was organized in 1904.
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Speaker1: Okay. I want to go into the exact, you know, some of the more
details later on. I just want to get the basic, you know, the basic factual
stuff down. Now, Um, do you belong to any other organizations for Jewish
people?
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No, just to the label Zionist.
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Speaker1: Okay. That's not a landsmanshaft.
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Speaker2: No, I belong to a Landsmanshaft. But not in. Not in Pittsburgh.
I belong to a Landsmanshaft in New York, which is the people that came from
it.
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Speaker1: Okay. What's that.
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Speaker2: Called?
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Speaker1: Once, my chef. Okay. What organization have you been most active
in? Over the greatest number of years.
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Speaker2: I was in the most is in the cultural organization. I was very
active in the Irish culture for bank.
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Uh huh. Uh.
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Speaker2: Could you go too far?
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Speaker1: How do you spell it?
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Speaker2: This is why I'd d i s h e r. Uh huh. Kurtulus Kültür Kultur
farband.
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Speaker1: That's connected with the labor Zionists. No, no.
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Speaker2: That's connected. It's a world organization which is primarily
fights for Yiddish culture.
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Speaker1: I see. And that's the one that you've been most active in over
the greatest number of years.
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Speaker2: Yeah, I was there from 1937 till 1960, and from 1960 I'm in the
labor Zionist.
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Speaker1: Okay. Okay. Now I have some questions about your family history.
Where were your parents born?
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Speaker2: The same city.
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Speaker1: The same city? Yeah. And where? What port of entry did they come
into? Did you come with them? You came with them. You didn't. I came a
month before them. How did you come?
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Speaker2: I came by myself.
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Speaker1: Uh huh. And how did your parents come? And they came right after
you came.
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Speaker2: See, one of my brothers. I had four brothers. One brother came
in 1906, 1908, 1910, 1913. And in 1920, one of my brothers was sent back to
Europe and to bring us those that remained my parents. Another brother of
mine and two of my sisters.
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Speaker1: I see. What what port of entry did you come in at New York? And
did you move into the Pittsburgh area right away?
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Speaker2: Was our house for us when we came, there was a house for us
waiting right in Squirrel Hill. We were one of the lucky ones that we
didn't have to go through, but most of the most of the immigrants were
coming and they had to. We lived in a you could call it for us, it was a
palace because it was a real seven room house on Nicholson Street at that
time. Square, a little 55 years ago was not like this. It was just like an
outside very there was no business sections. See, there were very few
houses and we were one of the few that came and lived here.
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Speaker1: And you were on Nicholson Street? Yeah. Nicholson Street. Your
brother had gotten that house for you.
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Speaker2: See, it's. There was a about a year ago KDKA wanted to they had
a on television is the also the minorities in Pittsburgh and I was one of
them and they asked me if I can characterize the immigrants that came in
the early in the 20th century. What is the specific thing? And I told them,
well, my brothers were very just ordinary shareholders. None of them made
more than $30 a week. But their dedication and devotion to the family while
they left Europe at the age of 14, as soon as one used to reach 14 and
under the Russians, they couldn't go to high school. They came to the
United States to work at the age of 14. But their dedication and devotion
to their parents and to their family was always so great that they took
every penny they had and even borrowed money to bring the parents and the
family here. And they should live in a in a good style. Okay.
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Speaker1: Okay. Mr. Saul, what was your father's occupation?
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Speaker2: My father was an attorney under the Russian tsar. But during
between 1914 and 1920, he couldn't do anything because you were under
German occupation. So we actually didn't do anything. But luckily in 1916,
my brothers from the United States sent us money to come to the United
States, but we couldn't come. So we lived on that money from 1916 until
1926. But when he came here, Father couldn't speak any English, so he
couldn't practice. So he got a job in the Big Sholom congregation as the
the it's called Shamus. You know, the shamus is. He was there till 1951.
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Speaker1: I see. And your mother, did she work outside the home.
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Speaker2: No mother with the children. And she had plenty of work in the
house.
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Speaker1: Was there any extra income in the home? Anybody else living with
your family?
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Speaker2: Only everybody worked. All the children worked. And. And that's
the way we.
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Speaker1: Okay. How many brothers and sisters did you have?
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Speaker2: Were six brothers and two sisters.
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Speaker1: And did nobody else live with you besides your family? How many
children do you have? I don't have any. Okay. Um, what kind of education
did you have?
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Speaker2: Between 1914 and 1920, there was no school, so all my education
was private. When I came to Pittsburgh, I went to work right away, but I
went to school in the evening. So first I went to Peabody High School, and
afterwards I went to the University of Pittsburgh at night.
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Speaker1: Uh huh. When you say your education in the old country was
private, do you mean in your own home, or were there small classes.
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Speaker2: With private teachers?
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Speaker1: I see. But did the different households get together and get one
teacher to just.
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Speaker2: One teacher with one.
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Speaker1: Student? Oh, I see. Okay. You said you went to Pitt. What did
you study there?
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Speaker2: I took up philosophy and I took up history, and I took up drama
and also accounting.
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Speaker1: Did you, uh. You finished there? No. Did you, uh. Did you go to
any more school after that?
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Speaker2: No, after the 30s. I didn't go to school just for the first ten
years.
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Speaker1: Okay. What was the first job you ever had?
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Speaker2: The first in the list was one job I was on. On the on the job
for 48 years in the men's clothing store. And in a few years later, I
became the manager of the store.
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Speaker1: That was where you first started? The first time you started.
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Speaker2: And. And there were I finished.
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Speaker1: Uh. Hi. Uh. Okay. Why? Why did you come to the Pittsburgh area
from the old country?
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Speaker2: Because my brothers were here. Seeing all our. We had a lot of
relatives. And so that's the reason my brothers came here, because the
relatives were here. See, they started to come here from 1885. See, my
grandmother's sisters and brothers came to Pittsburgh between 1885 and
1890. And of course, since there was always a close relationship between
the families, so my young brothers, when they came, they came to their
uncles and to their cousins. And so that's the reason why we came to
Pittsburgh.
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Speaker1: What was the ethnic background of most of the people in the
first neighborhood where you lived?
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Speaker2: Two more Jewish.
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Speaker1: Were they from the same part of of Europe as you were?
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Speaker2: No, no. Because you see, we see as we moved here, they were
already first generation Americans. I see. So they were not see, therefore,
I couldn't when I came, I didn't associate with any of the neighbors. I
used to go to Central Avenue, where the Jewish community was that spoke
Yiddish. And I used to go every evening or every time that I was free to
spend my time on Center Avenue.
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Speaker1: I see. Um, did you grow up in that same neighborhood You stayed
on Nicholson Street? Yeah.
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Speaker2: I live there, but I really didn't go up there because I spend
all my time on Center Avenue.
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Speaker1: I see. That's where the people were that were that were more
according to your.
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Speaker2: They spoke Yiddish and had the same interests.
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Speaker1: What were those interests?
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Speaker2: See, it was the labor organizations and the fraternal
organizations and the Yiddish cultural organizations that I was so much
interested. And they were all on Center Avenue. I see.
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Speaker1: Okay. What were some of the hardest problems you faced in in
Pittsburgh while you were growing up?
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Speaker2: Actually, we had no heart problems at all because I always made
a living and always in the family. Everybody had a living and we were very
much interested in the theatre and concerts. We used to go to the
symphonies that used to come to Pittsburgh. I used to go to lectures and
personal problems I never had. It was always the world problems and the
Jewish problems. And therefore, while there were tremendous and great. But
when there is a expression in Hebrew sarasaviya cinema, when there is a big
problem of the world, see that time you are not affected by it. So.
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Speaker1: Um, so you don't recall particularly any problems?
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Speaker2: Never. Because I always had a job. I was never unemployed and
never went overseas for vacations. I used to go for because on my job I
worked sometimes seven days a week because the store was open. Seven days
it's still even now open seven days. So I used to get six weeks vacation
and I used to go to the theater in New York and just go six weeks and see
about 50 plays.
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Speaker1: You worked on Saturday, too?
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Speaker2: Yes, Saturday and Sunday.
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Speaker1: Um, what what store is it?
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Speaker2: It's, uh, Morgan and Kaufman.
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Speaker1: Okay. What was the first organization of Jewish people that you
remember being organized or existing while you were growing up?
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Speaker2: Well, the first organization it was the I joined the that time,
the policy, the Labor Zionists in Pittsburgh.
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Speaker1: Uh, when was that?
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Speaker2: In 1920.
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Speaker1: Okay. I'm sorry. Could you. Okay. Do you want to go on? Could
you repeat that again? What you did. I'm sorry.
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Speaker2: You mean on what?
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:48.000
Speaker1: On the.
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Speaker2: Pullet sign. About the labor Zionist.
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Speaker1: About the Yiddish culture. Tell me what it's when it started and
how you got involved in that. See.
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Speaker2: Since Yiddish culture played a very important part in Jewish
life between the first and the Second World War, you see, it's only the 6
million Jews that were in the Holocaust. They were Yiddish speaking Jews.
So you can imagine how many Jews you see. But between 1920 and 1939,
between these Yiddish was a very important part of Jewish life and
especially of the cultural Jewish life. And therefore, in the United
States, in Poland, in the Soviet Union, even in South Africa, where the
Jewish community was very small, a lot of magazines published, publishing
houses, books were published by thousands of Yiddish writers. And we
thought it's very important to bring that movement together and organize
them so that we could go on with it. Cultural activities. And I became the
secretary of it in Pittsburgh.
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Speaker1: In the 1930. Yes. Um, yeah. You told me before a little bit
about how the Yiddish language started. Yeah. Could you go through that?
See?
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Speaker2: Hebrew was the language of the Jews. But when the Jews were
dispossessed 2000 years ago and they left, they were pushed out from
Israel. They spoke the language of the people with whom they lived. And
therefore there is an important period of. Of the Spanish culture and the
Arabic culture when the Jews spoke the different languages. But Hebrew was
mostly used as the language of the religion. But a thousand years ago, when
the Jews lived in Central Europe, they took over the old German and they
started to speak, which we call now Yiddish, which is actually old German.
And when they were pushed out from Germany and they went to Eastern Europe,
to Poland, Russia, Romania, they took the language with them. But for
hundreds of years they just it was the language of an everyday language,
but about between 100 and 50 years. Between 1850 and 1950, Yiddish became a
cultural language, and thousands of Yiddish writers developed a real
culture. And there were great books like Sholem Asch was supposed to get a
Nobel Prize for his work that he wrote The Nazarene, and also he wrote
many, many books which are familiar. And now you have a singer, Yitzhak
Bashevis Singer, which is very which is one of the most popular American
writers. But he actually writes in Yiddish. See? And therefore, we thought
it's important to see that the Yiddish culture should go on. And therefore,
we organize the World Organization in Paris in 1937, which is called the
Yiddish Culture Farband.
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Speaker1: Okay. What just out of curiosity, why was German the language
that it grew out of instead of some other language? You see, because.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:25:05.000
Speaker2: The Jews lived at time in Germany. See, they were pushed out.
The main group of Jews that lived in Europe lived in Germany, and they took
over the German. All German, see, just like English of 400 years ago, is
not the same English as today and the same thing. The old German is not the
same as. But Yiddish is like the old German. Of course, it has 2500 Hebrew
words, and since they lived in Slavic countries they took in a lot of
Slavic words. But 80% of Yiddish is the origin and the old German.
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:16.000
Speaker1: Okay, Mr. Saul, you said that the first organization of Jewish
people that you remember was the Labor Zionist Organization. Uh, what, who
were the most important members or workers?
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:31.000
Speaker2: Then she it happens that the person that I worked for, Mr.
Morgan, he was the head of it and also a member the name of Abe Miller and
the Segal family.
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.000
Speaker1: What kind of work did these people do?
00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Speaker2: They were business people, but they philosophy was socialism.
And socialism in the Jewish state. In Israel, in Palestine.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:55.000
Speaker1: Okay. What about now? Who are the most important members of it
now in Pittsburgh? Yeah.
00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:08.000
Speaker2: Is Eddie Steinfeld is the chairman. And I'm the secretary. And
we have extra gas.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.000
Speaker1: Guess what? How do you spell that?
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:19.000
Speaker2: Gus. Gus. And the river.
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:24.000
Speaker1: What kind of work do these people do?
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:33.000
Speaker2: Eddie Steinfeld is the executive secretary of the Institute
campaign.
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Speaker1: And what about the others?
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.000
Speaker2: The women. Our housewives.
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Speaker1: What are they? What kind of work does their husbands do? We.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:50.000
Speaker2: Went to the grocery and one of the fruit market.
00:26:50.000 --> 00:27:04.000
Speaker1: Do they just work at these stores or do they own them or what?
They own them. Uh huh. Um, would you say the philosophy of, um. Why don't
you tell me why the, um, Labor Zionist organization was formed?
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Speaker2: The Zionist organization was formed because we felt that in
Palestine to create a Jewish state just on a basis, as we have it in the
United States, it'll never work because after all, it's a country without
any natural resources. It's most of it is desert. And there is from the
point of view of business, it won't pay to develop it, but it's only people
with their dedication to create a new country, a new culture, a new life
will give their life to create such a country. And that country has to be
based on a socialist basis. And therefore, we thought that the only way to
develop a new Israel is on this basis where there will be social justice
and an opportunity for all the people to have a chance to live like a human
being.
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.000
Speaker1: Was this this was an international movement, I assume?
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:19.000
Speaker2: Yeah, it was a world. Don't call it international. It's a world.
Okay.
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:20.000
Speaker1: Um.
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:35.000
Speaker2: Because it's only Jews belong to it. See, when you say
international, see? But this was only a world movement. The Jews all over
the world had joined that organization.
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:41.000
Speaker1: Okay. What was the most important organization for Jewish people
when you were growing up?
00:28:41.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Speaker2: The most important organization. See, I think. It depends in
what section, like where the Jewish law class was. It was the Workmen's
Circle and the Jewish Socialist Federation.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:13.000
Speaker1: Could you tell me something about those?
00:29:13.000 --> 00:30:13.000
Speaker2: The work. See, while the Jews were coming to the United States
still in the colonial times, but the number was very, very small. It's only
in 1880. Jewish immigration to the United States started to be on a large
scale, and 1 million Jews came in between 1800 and 80. And a million and a
half Jews came between 1900 and 1900 and 1914. Ce And they all it was a
central immigration. Most of them settled in New York and also in the
eastern part of the United States. They spoke Yiddish. They went to work in
factories, they worked in sweatshops, and therefore that was the beginning
of the Jewish labor movement. And since the philosophy of socialism at that
time started to spread in the world, it surely affected also the Jewish
groups.
