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Johnson: All right. Would you continue?
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Laban: Yes. Insofar as. Leadership. Among blacks. In Pittsburgh today are
concerned. Yeah all the I speak from long years of experience and comparing
today with yesteryear. I would say that the. Number of leaders. Has greatly
decreased in Pittsburgh. And I am very much of the opinion that the real.
The the. The vast numbers of vaster. This is a word number of leaders today
exist in the South than there. Is. Seemingly be in Pittsburgh. I say this,
however, not forgetting that they are leaders such as? We have leaders. We
have leaders such as Reverend Patrick. And my own pastor, the. The Reverend
Junius. Ken Carter. And. To name a few. To name a few.
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Johnson: Do you recall the most important organization for black people
when you were growing up? And why was this organization important?
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Laban: Yes. When I was growing up, I recall. I'm and I'm happy to state
that the greatest organization when I was growing up that impressed me
mostly was the the NAACP. It's the organization seemed to have had greater
drive.
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Johnson: And excuse me one minute. When you were growing up, I don't think
the NAACP was formed then.
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Laban: No, no. As. A young man. Johnson: Church? Laban: What do you say?
Church? Laban: Well, no.
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Laban: Well, the church has the attendance. The the attendance is of
churches were were much greater than it is today. I think people. Um, I.
They paid greater attention. I don't think it's disrespect. I don't think
it's a matter of having them more respect for the for the the pastors than
they have today. I think he is the pastor of any church. He is still
respected today. But I think that the the lack of. Church. The attendance
today. Is not necessarily, I would say, because of the pastors. But because
of. Really just the. If there is such a word, people are not as as
religious today as as they they were some. 30 odd years ago. I think. The.
Emphasis seems to be on the almighty and everlasting dollar than it is on
the Almighty and everlasting God. And really. From a moral standpoint.
There is a great. Decadence. Insofar as morally, morally speaking, is
concerned. Much of it. Is is is hidden. The greatest of which was brought
out. In the Watergate. Which. Which? Managed to have stayed hidden for
quite some time until it was exposed. And it seemed to me personally as an
individual that since the exposure, since it has been exposed, it has
tended to. Affect. The moral. Fiber. Other people. In every. town and
Hamlet.
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Johnson: Did any of these organizations such as the NAACP, the Urban
League or the church, ever make help available to you when you needed it,
such as discrimination in areas of discrimination and that kind of thing?
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Laban: I don't. I don't remember. I don't remember having had to call
upon. When I was faced earlier in my life when I was faced with
discrimination. I don't recall having thought about going to the National
Association for the Advancement of Colored People for. To place my
complaint for them to take action about as in then as I did in later years
when. When legislation began to take shape against discriminating. Against
people because of their color or national origin in public places. In. Like
in restaurants or, or wherever, you know, you feel then and and and NAACP
then came really came in. Began then to exert itself to such an extent that
you feel. More inclined to go to them. Uh, to place your complaint, knowing
then that they would intercede in your behalf, then they would have much,
much earlier. But as for myself, I don't remember having had to go to them.
I had a way. I feared. I thought of a way that I would stand up. And fight
my own battles, you know, because I was aware that you could appeal. You
had the freedom of appeal, you know, and I would use it and. I, I would
take my case to the, the the person at the top rung of the ladder rather
than dealing with the. The man on the low. On the low. On the. On the low.
On the totem pole. You know. And I, I, I got long I got more. Consider I
got consideration I would get consideration because I. Why. Because I found
that the man the higher the higher he was. Socially speaking, the the more
gracious he seemed to have had more. To be more gracious than the the
little people down the lower rung of the ladder who was trying. I was so
much afraid that you. Somebody else will get ahead of them, you know?
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Johnson: Do many of your friends belong to the NAACP? The Urban League?
Church. Laban: Yes.
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Laban: I don't know. I am glad that the question about NAACP has come up.
I think I really don't think and I say this, I say this not maybe I'm not
necessarily not with tongue in cheek, but I trust whomever would hear this
would would know and will be brave enough even as I who I'm about to say it
will be brave enough to accept it as the truth. The leadership. Uh, insofar
as NAACP is concerned here in Pittsburgh, a does not seem to me to measure
up as it was in yesteryear. Even the membership drive in their membership
drive. They don't seem to go out. They don't seem to go after it as much as
they used to. It seems that they leave it up to you to join, you know. Yes.
You see. No, I think they have to do like Allah. It is said that Allah once
did. They have to. That's right. Yes. You see.
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Johnson: You said earlier that you were not a member of a fraternal
organization. May I ask you why not?
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Laban: Well. I have started to. But I tell you, really, the reason I the
reason is I didn't understand too well. And I never about them too well.
Now, secondly, I was more interested in civic affairs than I was about
joining an organization, I feel, to work within that organization. I felt
that. That's my nature. I was more concerned about trying to do something.
Civically speaking, that surrounds me. That I am walking over and beside.
And that was all around me. I think that I could. And I even feel that way
then that even my own church, which I have been a good member. You know,
and because I am one of those persons who believe in that part of the
Lord's Prayer, that may thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. What
I often ask myself, I wonder what what do people for thousands of years
we've been praying, May thy kingdom come on earth as it is. And what do we
think that. Heaven is if we think that heaven truly mean what we are saying
and think that heaven is, is is a clean and lily white clean. Not, you
know, I say. Clean as a fresh fallen snow. We will. And we if we want it.
The Lord's Kingdom to come on Earth. Surely we will try to clean up the
thing. And so therefore, I have had no time. I have had no time to. I my my
concern, my work in civic affairs will not allow me to attend the meetings.
I feel that was my feeling in in fraternal organizations. And then if you
will remember, recall earlier my membership in even in Luanda Club.
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Laban: You know, I. It made no sense to me to take the key out of my
pocket and turn it and go inside and close the door after me and not
concern myself about what was to the right and left, front and back. Of the
structure that housed that club. And and you know my feeling I live to see
my the thoughts that I have about this came to pass because it has it got
so bad all around them that they had to move out and to better a better
location. See. And so to be and to march on, to go to meetings and to march
to march and beautiful days, you know. I prefer to work. How do something
to make my community a better place in which to live. And I am a great
advocate and admirer of the late William S Powell. You know, because he. It
was he who. When I moved to Pittsburgh, I mean, to Homewood. He was the
organizer. He had been the organizer and and founder of the Homewood
Brushton Community Improvement Association. And I like the the purpose and
objectives of that organization was exactly what I stood for, what I. The
things which I believe in and work for when I was down in the Hill
district. And. I don't know. I don't know. I do hope enough, if not at all,
A goodly number of people know the aim, purpose and objectives of the
Homewood Brushton Community Improvement Association. The main purpose and
objective is to encourage families to keep up and maintain their home. To
work. To prevent deterioration.
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Johnson: Okay. Mr. LeBon, have you ever been a member of a labor union?
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Laban: No, I have never been a member of a labor union.
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Johnson: The Great Depression of the 1930 had an effect on almost everyone
living in America at the time. How was your life affected by the
Depression?
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Laban: Well, you know, I seem to have fared better. It's funny. It
seems--
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Johnson: You're not the first person I've heard say that.
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Laban: I seem to have fared better because the opportunities was there and
that's why I voted for I became a Democrat because during that time.
President Roosevelt. Roosevelt, Franklin D. Roosevelt was the president of
the United States. And I, I did several things.
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Laban: I'm not You take the the the CCC the Civilian Conservation Corps
Corp. I'm not mentioning it because I worked in it. That was for a younger
people. But they was WPA, the Works Progress Administration. And it it had
so many functionaries, so many it embraced so many things. I, I worked I
got a job in it as. In in a in a project as a junior, as a junior junior
engineer, you know, because of my because of my because of my drafting. You
see the drafting course that evening course that I had taken at University
of Pittsburgh and the the. Lettering. And show card and lettering. It kind
of blends into this. Now I've got a job with the county, the Allegheny
County, what was known as the cubicle content. Now, when we speak of
cubicle content, we're talking about the, the, the two dimensional, the the
dimensions of a of a home, a structure. You see, because many additions had
been not many additions, additions have been built onto houses that were
not known. But by taking the finding the cubicle content it were additions
have been built it the measurements will show up, you see, and it will
taxes. It will it will cause the more taxes to come in because on until
that. Was no, no. Taxes will have been paid on me. And I worked in that for
in the field. As a draughtsman making you see we they they had two men who
took the measurement the front and the sides of the and the the height of
the building and we may make would make the sketch of the building you see
you know and put in the porch wherever and turn that work in to the
draughtsman on the inside. We work 30 months in the field doing that kind
of work, and at the end of two years and six months when we had done all
the work in the field.
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Laban: Mr.. I think his name was Graham. He gave those of us who who would
accept an opportunity to work on the inside as a draftsman. And some of us
hesitated because we never believed that we could do it, you know? He says,
Oh, come on in. You said you could do it. Don't be afraid. Well, I believe
that I could do it. Having taken the course, you see. And so I worked I
worked for about two more years inside as a draftsman, you know, you are
making the fine work of that, the rough work that was sent in the sketches.
You're making a scale a or a fine piece of work from the sketching that. So
I now I'm saying that all this was during the height of the Depression, You
know, and then I had. I learned to be a salesman. A salesman. Because we
had at the YMCA down on Centre Avenue, the leisure time school thing, and I
took on Mr. Douglas, a man. He was a colored man. He was. He was dynamic.
He was he was really terrific salesmanship onto him. And I feared from that
because I went out after that, taking that course of salesmanship. It's
mostly good. Bit of it is psychology, you know, and went out and sold
household appliances, you know. Yes. So. Oh, and then I had another job
doing show cards, you know, silkscreen, you know, so that I did all right.
They weren't high paying, you know, they couldn't be because they were
projects, you know.
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Johnson: What changes occurred within the church at the time of the
depression?
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Laban: Well. Comparing then and today. The the the. If memory serves me
right, and I am sure I am right. The the attendants. Was greater than. It
was greater then and it is today. Um, it seems that people were more.
Devout Christians than they are. I mean, today, I mean, they are people.
People attended church. Then. Then they did today. And I don't know. I
wouldn't dare. I have an idea, but I wouldn't be so audacious as to speak
with authority that and pretending that I know exactly and I don't know
exactly. And so I wouldn't say it, but I do know this, that the it's and I
say without fear of contradiction, everybody, because everybody knows the
attendance today is not as great. It's not as great. And there I feel, just
like we said, about NAACP not going out and getting the soliciting for the
membership. I think the the I think the the churches has fallen down to
some degree in because there are so many children who no longer attend
Sunday school. And we are blessed today than we were then, many years ago,
because since then there has come into being the Council of Churches. The
Council of Churches to such an extent is so wonderful to the extent that
even rabbis and and people of different denominations, exchanges, pulpits.
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Laban: And I would say that whereas there are so many children, that's not
going to Sunday school. I say again, I repeat that the mountains wouldn't
go to Allah. Allah goes to the mountain. Now, in this case, I'm saying with
their having been formed a council of churches, they should pool their
resources and and get and secure buses. They could raise it. They could
raise it. The church. The Council of Churches could raise money. You take
in Homewood, buses. There could be two two buses. And you would you would
pick up the children regardless. Regardless to what church they belong.
Just pick them up and drop them off at their church. I mean, why don't.
Because they're not. If they are Catholics, drop them off at their at their
church. If they're Presbyterian, drop them off at their if they're
Episcopalians, drop them off, you know, and do it that way. That'd be one.
So but we're not doing we I don't know. We're just not doing what we ought
to do. We've left undone so many things.
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Johnson: Okay. Do you maintain contact with your family in the West
Indies?
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Laban: Every month. I do. Yes, every month.
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Johnson: Have you visited them recently?
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Laban: In 59. In 59.
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Johnson: Do they come here?
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Laban: No, they have never been. I. They are among the poorest in the
world. People in that part of the world. And I, I. I have observed this
that care. You know, I don't know what the letters mean, but. But I do know
what it means. But I know this care. Uh. The concern of care. Is is is to
be found mostly where in countries are of political that has political that
is of political significance, that has political significance and little.
Islets that scattered in the Caribbean and those places. Some of them are
and some of them not have no is of no importance, politically speaking, geo
politically speaking. And I get I got letters telling me that they don't
have a lot of money, but what little they have, they can get things they
can't buy. They can't. There is nothing to buy. They can't spend it because
there's nothing to buy.
