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Joseph Hersh: My name is Joseph Hersh.
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Elaine Weissman: And your age?
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Hersh: 70 plus.
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Weissman: Place of birth.
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Hersh: Uniontown, Pennsylvania.
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Weissman: Maiden. Name of mother.
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Hersh: Her colon.
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Weissman: Any name changes.
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Hersh: That would be very difficult for me to determine, considering the
fact that my mother was born in 1882 and my dad in 1870. So you have a oh.
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You know what happened? I haven't been.
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Hersh: I got a complicated. No, I forgot my thing. Let's do one thing at a
time. Any here is all over. All right.
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Weissman: Any other information about Mother's family? Well.
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Hersh: She was an only child, and.
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Weissman: Uh, did she come with any brothers or sisters?
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Hersh: No. She had no brothers. But my grandmother's two brothers and
sister lived within the within a short distance of each other and her
mother and father. So there was quite a close family unit.
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Weissman: And they came from where?
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Hersh: They came from Odessa, from the Odessa region in southern Russia.
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Weissman: And what language do you speak and understand?
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Hersh: Well, I don't speak their language. I took German in college, so I.
I read and write German.
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Weissman: And your occupation?
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Hersh: My occupation is in general surgery. And I retired since.
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Weissman: Since 1970 and religion, orthodox conservative reform.
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Hersh: I started out as an Orthodox, but came.
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Uh, I never made it.
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Hersh: I went into the. Conservative conservative movement. And after
getting married, I. Shows.
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Weissman: As far as politics, what could you say your family? Well, my.
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Hersh: My family was Republican. I have been an independent all my
political life.
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Weissman: Do you remember anything about Eugene Debs?
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Hersh: I'm sure that at the time that he ran for the presidency, my
father.
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Weissman: How long have you lived in the Pittsburgh area? My entire
lifetime. And you have belonged to what organization? For Jewish people?
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Hersh: Well, is strictly the Jewish people.
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Along with the Zionists. List of.
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Hersh: And my Masonic affiliations, which meant that about 45 years.
Because our organization was not 100% Jewish, but it was predominantly
Jewish, and so is my medical fraternity, which is a non-sectarian and a
group that is predominantly.
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Weissman: And the port of entry of your parents into the US.
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Hersh: Now, my dad came in through Ellis.
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Weissman: Island and they plan to stay here? Yes. When your parents. They
moved right into Uniontown.
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Hersh: Her. Well, right after they were married? Yes.
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Weissman: And, uh, the neighborhood. There was a, uh, conglomerate.
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Hersh: Did you say it was a conglomerate neighborhood? Because it was
primarily a very active coal mining town, was a business center and a
drawing from coal miners and farmers.
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Weissman: And then you move your father's occupation.
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Hersh: Jeweler.
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Weissman: A jeweler.
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Hersh: And my mother worked in movies. My grandmother lived with us.
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Weissman: Uh, how many brothers and sisters did you have? And when did you
move into the Pittsburgh area?
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Hersh: 1920.
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Weissman: Did anyone else share home with your immediate family?
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Hersh: Just my grandmother. My mother's mother.
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Weissman: Now your education and work history.
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Hersh: I went to the University of Pennsylvania. I should get a medical
degree from the medical school in 19. Six and went into practice in
Pittsburgh in 1920. I had an internship at. Lying in and. Became affiliated
with Dr. Dekker was a dental surgeon in Pittsburgh. Was a demonstrator. Of
course, he gave to the students at the medical. Under the heading of
surgical anatomy. And so. 19. 1934.
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Weissman: And your income first started to support others than yourself.
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Hersh: Support anybody but myself and.
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Weissman: And you? Your job's good and bad. They were all in the medical
profession. Uh, your reason for coming to the Pittsburgh area?
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Hersh: I establish roots here. And I stayed here.
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Weissman: You went to college in Pittsburgh and your dad was killed and
your dad.
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Hersh: Had relatives here. Cousin had friends here. And fraternity
Brothers. Where? Classmates.
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Weissman: Where in Pittsburgh. Did you first establish yourself?
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About. I'm going to go and.
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Hersh: Then we moved to Dormont.
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Where we lived.
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Weissman: And most of the people who lived around Darlington Road. Where
did they come from?
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Hersh: Most of the older people all were. Uh, they were all over you up
here. Um.
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Weissman: Were there Catholics in that area?
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Hersh: Yes, there were. There were. Our neighbor across the street was a
famous Danny Morello from Morello's band, and he was Italian. And the
neighbor. On the corner was a desperate because he had a typical batsman
like Young Hearts. And down the street was one of the old surgeons from the
South Side whose name I can't recall right now, but it was a good Irish
man. We we had a a rather cross-section of the ethnic groups in the
Pittsburgh district.
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Weissman: Have you had any hard problems growing up in Pittsburgh because
you were a Jew? I. And you were treated well as a Jew. Any bad feelings
shown?
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Hersh: Well, I never surfaced. Remember, we live in a Wasp oriented
society. It was wrong. And half century ago. So. If had had any reference
to me. Probably those. So have it. Did you appear to start.
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Weissman: Getting into medical school? Was that a problem?
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Hersh: Actually, I have no problem.
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Weissman: The first organization of Jewish people. You remember being
organized or existing when you grew up.
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Hersh: Well, back in Uniontown, we. Why am I trapped and all alone? I
don't. Membership in both the Young Men's Hebrew Association. Persons. The
YMCA had more to offer to a young man because they had a very fine
gymnasium and a very fine swimming pool. And it was some years before the Y
actually, uh, was built in the open section. And I began to utilize their
facilities. And I recall the old Irish Conference 17.
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Weissman: On Center Avenue. We're coming to that later. But first, let's
go through, uh, the rest of these questions. Do you remember any important
member, worker or organizer then, with the YMCA? Remember any names of the
founders? Right. It was a long time ago. And the most important
organization for Jewish people when growing up was.
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Hersh: Well, I think y y for a young person, the y I might say a lot of
merit.
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Weissman: And any of these organizations ever make help available when
needed.
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Hersh: Well, not needing any help. Couldn't answer that question.
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Weissman: Do many of your friends now belong to the Zionist organization,
I assume?
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Hersh: I will never question my I was ever.
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Weissman: A local lodge or national officer.
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Hersh: Well, I was a past master of my Masonic lodge, which was primarily
Jewish for my number 535, which. Somewhere around 1930. That was Master of
Elijah in 41, and a group of us started a new life on the Brotherhood. Also
meeting of the Masonic Temple, and that was the first master of that
modest. And the majority of both lodges were Jewish.
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Weissman: About how many members.
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Hersh: All the wives was a very large organization. We had somewhere in
the neighborhood of over 600 members, and that's what. Sort of break away
and start a little satellite group.
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Weissman: What was the satellite group called?
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Hersh: The Lodge. Brotherhood Lodge.
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Weissman: And you held office in there? Yes. Were you ever a member of a
labor union? Uh, the Great Depression of the 1930 had an effect on almost
everyone in America. How was your life affected?
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Hersh: Well, people never pay their bills. I didn't have a major effect on
me because I have been very conservative my entire lifetime. When we.
Conservatism. Learning a lesson. Ride harm from the Depression. And I still
look with wide open eyes at how the people live today, especially the
children, the younger generation. Because they feel that. There can be no
end to to this prosperity in this country. They just can't believe there
was a depression any more than they can believe the. Film. 6 million Jews.
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Weissman: Have you kept any contact with the old country? Do you have any
family there?
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Hersh: We have no family in the old country.
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Weissman: And as far as you know, you never sent money or gifts to the old
country. Did your mother.
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Hersh: Well, we we. My mother always supported the few places and.
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Weissman: Were there relatives there?
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Hersh: No, they were just charitable organizations. They were charitable
organizations in this respect of the old Orthodox people were firmly
entrenched with the idea of a memorial service for their parents or very
close relatives. And probably the best place to carry out any type of
memorial remembrance for the departed was to have this done in a place like
the old City of Jerusalem.
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Weissman: Do you belong to a synagogue now?
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Hersh: No. I've been unaffiliated.
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Weissman: Is there any relationship between the synagogue and any
fraternal organizations you have belonged to?
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Hersh: I was never able to.
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Weissman: Uh, do you know the role of the rabbi? The rabbi's reaction to
World War One. World War Two. They ever make any statements that you
remember?
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Hersh: Well, as far as I know, the rabbis were always very, very, uh.
Well, I would say they were patriotic. I never heard a rabbi at a service
make any remark in any way. Rogatory to. The way we either got into or
carried.
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On our political, political.
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Hersh: Everyday life.
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Weissman: Now, the next question Did the rabbi encourage Americanization?
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Hersh: As far as I can say, always.
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Weissman: Do you remember anything about Rabbi Civics? Yes. Could you tell
me what you remember?
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Hersh: Well, I know, I know personally, it was a very fine gentleman, a
very good friend of my father's. And many a time my dad, when he still
lived in Uniontown, used to bring me to the charter school. And. It was
always something on the part of the rabbi's siblings to come over and make
a big fuss over me as as a guest and once even gave me the shofar to blow
at the service during the month of the high holidays when the shofar is
blown every morning with the orthodox service just before the.
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Weissman: Do you remember anything about Rabbi Wyszynski?
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Hersh: Very well. I knew. I knew. The rabbi says his whole family. And the
charming daughters that he had. There's a lot. I know how to answer this,
but he didn't have a great family. And I spent a lot. And I would say it
was because of the fact that you did have the. Charming female connection
with his family. Now, his one son was a doctor. Who was very friendly.
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First name. I think it was Mars.
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Hersh: And the other son was an attorney, but they were an outstanding
family.
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Weissman: Now, my question is, there's a difference between Rabbi Sivits
and Rabbi Oshinsky. One was traditional and Muszynski was more modern.
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Hersh: Well, I would say that they were both Orthodox from my point of
view. But Wyszynski was not the Hebrew scholar that Zivitz was. Zivitz had
written many fine texts in Hebrew, but of the two I would say they were
both very, very popular with the Orthodox community. I don't leave out
another rabbi at that time. And that was Rabbi Cochin.
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Weissman: How do you spell that?
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Hersh: H i n. We had three outstanding Orthodox rabbis in Pittsburgh. And
Rabbi Cochin was the quietest of the three, but a very fine scholar. He
didn't have the oratorical ability of osinski. Osinski was the greatest
orator of the of the three. The quietest was Cochin, and the most educated
was Rabbi Zivitz. Now, this is my impression, my personal impression. And
Rabbi Cochin also had a most unusual family. Two sons were doctors and one
daughter was an attorney.
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Weissman: Those days, that was unusual. How did World War Two affect you
as a Jewish person? A World War one.
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Hersh: Well, I was I was too young for war. More when I was in high school
and it never seemed to affect me until one of my classmates who had
enlisted early in one of the Canadian units and he came back to visit us on
crutches with his leg amputated. I realize that this war is really serious.
Being too young to get in a World War One. I found myself. The other end of
the scale, World War Two that they took some of the younger men at our
hospital that passed from hospital to the surgical department and then the
Manpower Commission. Reviewing the status of Preston Hospital realized
that. Many more surgeons, the hospital will have to close. So I was
declared essential and frozen in that spot for.
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The remainder of.
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Hersh: And had a great impression on me like it was on. Yeah. Jewish
space, no matter how how thin the connections would be.
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So the atrocities.
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Hersh: Capable of Germany. By country.
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Weissman: Uh, have you ever saved any money with an insurance company like
one of these fraternal organizations? Have you ever borrowed money from any
of them? Never.
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Hersh: I borrowed out of policy, but I never. Yes, but I never.
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Weissman: Never alone.
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Hersh: And your business or savings and loan?
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Weissman: Your Masonic lodge. Do they have any cemetery arrangements or
anything? No. Now. What is the ethnic group of your spouse?
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Hersh: Yes. Thank. Good for my spouse. Well, let me see. Came from getting
an axe that I have to be very careful when they ask me that by my password.
Born in Brooklyn and. The father was. Chemistry professor who came to teach
at University of. And therefore the family moved. And my father was a
professor of chemistry. I recall going in there one day to complain about a
grade. And I thought and I thought that one of his men had given me a
non-deserving grade in an examination. Club was perfect. Or chemical
formula. What's almost like a metaphor. But therefore I thought that a
perfect grave was in order. And. We are giving out the thing for a while
and then it settled for 99. I said, How come? I said, Well, there is no
perfect. Little. Little. We love to know that. Possibly. 20 or more years
later, he would play my father in law.
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Weissman: Did your spouse belong to any fraternal organizations?
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Hersh: Well, esparsas. Reacting college. Night. All. Holly. I can't
believe. I feel that she did an outstanding job because these were not
Jewish oriented. Hall of Fame. That's right. And. Similar situation. Jews
in the city of court, which is a governing body, the student body. She was.
Chief justice. To New York, and nowhere is among her connections. Where is
there any affiliation? With one exception that is her sorority, which also
is a sort of non-sectarian situation. But the majority of the girls in her
sorority were.
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Weissman: Any crucial aspects of being Jewish when growing up?
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Hersh: Well, only in a situation like Uniontown, where you were growing up
in a community made up of coal miners and you had a you had a predominant
Central European population which brought with them when they came from
Europe, the strong roots of anti-Semitism. So I would say as a boy growing
up in that community, I was never left to forget the fact that I was
Jewish.
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Weissman: I see. Did you have to defend yourself?
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Hersh: In many cases?
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Weissman: Uh, what about at the present time? Jewish.
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Hersh: That was the difference between living in. The ethnic community has
such roots and coming to a cosmopolitan city of Pittsburgh like Pittsburgh.
Now, when I came to Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh 50 years ago was like the
country of today. Today, most people in this country believe that we are
living in a multiracial society and they are accepting it. And the question
of ethnic origin is now coming to the fore. Everybody is proud of their
ethnic origin, but by the same token, there is no downgrading, with
exception of the very little situation between the Arabs and our. Yes. Or
trying to break that down.
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Weissman: Any aspects of the American culture which came into conflict
with your upbringing.
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Hersh: That's a hard question to answer the American culture. Well, as I
said, we were in a spa. We had a society, and of course, it was stronger
during my growing years and my younger years. It is today, and there are
many roots that are still present today. There are still certain clubs that
will not take. But probably Marks. I could say that any club that won't
take me isn't worth joining. Occur 50 years ago.
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Weissman: What ethnic group do you feel closest to your own?
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Hersh: Very strange. I do have many German friends. Well, I can read and
write German and. Goes back to the fact that not all Germans were Nazis and
not all parents were proud of Nazi. Others have.
00:26:51.000 --> 00:27:02.000
Still Maximus without reservation. Hard.
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Weissman: Seminary and what ethnic group are most different from your.
Another hard. Everyone finds that.
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Hersh: I have to go back and sort of a plot and the tape had run out. So
that's past.
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Weissman: Uh, how does membership in your Masonic lodge or in your temple
affect your position in the Jewish community?
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Hersh: Well, I don't believe it. Like the Virgin Mary at all. That was a
bad picture by the organizations as a whole, and that's why they've been.
Losing their popularity over the years. And it was. It was bad, too, to try
and relegate people into small groups and making one person because they
were a member of a group feel better than others. That seems to be the
philosophy of the younger generation today, that such type of of class
society is not acceptable today. And. I was glad to know that. I could see
over the years there was a widening. Class consciousness because.
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:41.000
Weissman: Has it helped your family as far as education? Marriage?
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Hersh: Circuit Factor was one of my Masonic brothers who was very
jealous.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:51.000
Of the fact that I.
00:28:51.000 --> 00:29:03.000
Hersh: He was married, of course. And he. Who what the man finally
energies after. He tries to my present wife.
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:21.000
Weissman: Huh? Has it helped you in your business or profession?
Membership in. Has it hurt you? What class do you identify with?
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:28.000
Hersh: Well, I would say that I'm brother.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:33.000
Weissman: Upper class. The middle class.
00:29:33.000 --> 00:30:20.000
Hersh: Arrived when you're when you're in the medical profession. It was
positively rated at 22 rating. The mean median income of. My profession in
the upper middle class. In a way that writing is. And sort of latched onto
our tails and starting to put our tails.
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Weissman: How has membership in your organization affected your chances of
moving.
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To a higher class?
