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Lillian Freeman: Lillian Freeman. Elaine Weissman: Age? Freeman: Over 60.
Weissman: Where were you born? Freeman: In Sharpsburg, Pennsylvania.
Weissman: What was your maiden name? Freeman: Gorman. Weissman: Was that
always the name? Was there ever a name change? Freeman: Probably, I think
from Gormanski. Weissman: And how was it changed? Freeman: Just knocked off
-ski. A banker told my father that he could just take it off. And he did.
Weissman: Oh. Where did your parents come from? Freeman: My father came
from Vilna, Poland. My mother came from Hungary. I can't. Weissman: But
what was her maiden name? Freeman: Hanover. Weissman: And, uh, was that
ever changed from anything? Freeman: No. Weissman: Uh, what language do you
speak and understand? Freeman: I speak English. I understand a little bit
of Yiddish. That's it. Weissman: Uh, your occupation before you retired?
Freeman: Real estate broker. Weissman: And, uh, your religion. Freeman:
Jewish. Weissman: Orthodox, Conservative? Freeman: Reformed. Weissman: Any
idea who your family voted for in '21 when Eugene Debs was running for?
Freeman: No idea. Weissman: Uh, what type politics? Were they Republicans?
Democrats? Freeman: I guess there must have been Democrats. They kept
voting for Franklin Roosevelt. Weissman: A lot of people turned Democrat
after a while. And how long have you lived in the Pittsburgh area? Freeman:
All my life. Weissman: Oh, you've lived in Pittsburgh all your life?
Freeman: Right. Weissman: What organization have you been active in? For
the greatest number of years which is most important to you? Freeman:
Temple Emanuel. Weissman: Now-- Freeman: And the realtors. Weissman: The
birthplace of your parents. We have that. Do you know what port of entry
they came into? Freeman: I believe Ellis Island. Weissman: When they came
here, did they plan on staying in the United States? Freeman: Yes.
Weissman: When your parents moved, did they move into the Pittsburgh area?
Freeman: No. My father moved to Boston. My mother moved to New York City.
Weissman: And about when did they come to Pittsburgh?
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My father was 16 years old. Turn it off.
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Weissman: You think your father came to Pittsburgh? About when? Freeman:
About 18. About 1900. Weissman: Do you know what neighborhood they moved
in? Freeman: Sharpsburg. Weissman: And how long? Freeman: He moved into
McKees Rocks first. And then bought a business in Sharpsburg. Weissman:
Mckees Rocks. And how long was he there? About? Freeman: I don't have any
idea. Weissman: Then in Sharpsburg. Um, any particular area in Sharpsburg?
Freeman: There's only one area. 400 block. Had a business on Main Street.
Weissman: And what was his occupation? Freeman: He was a grocer. Weissman:
And was he always a grocer? Freeman: Yeah. Weissman: It's amazing how many
of the Jewish people started out. And he stayed in Sharpsburg. How long?
Freeman: Um, until. Yeah, I was eight years old. No. Sharpsburg. I wasn't
even born there. Um, until about 1921. 22. Weissman: And did he retire at
that point? Freeman: He retired for a while, and the depression came. He
went back to work. Weissman: Um. And, uh. Mother, did she ever work outside
of the home? Freeman: No. She worked in that business right with him all
the time. Weissman: Uh, did they employ any other people? Freeman: Yes.
Lots of people. This is a pretty big market. Weissman: Uh, how many
brothers and sisters do you have? Freeman: I have three sisters and one
brother. Weissman: Uh, do they live in the Pittsburgh area? Freeman: My
brother lives in Indiana, PA. The others are all in California. Weissman:
Did anyone else ever share the home with your family? Like relatives or.
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Freeman: Always. Always had somebody in their living? Somebody we brought
from Europe or somebody that needed a job and. Weissman: Were they mainly
relatives? Freeman: Usually relatives. Weissman: And they would stay with
you any length of time? Freeman: Yes. So they got married usually.
Weissman: They came when they were quite young. Uh, did you ever have any
boarders? Freeman: No. Weissman: Uh, how many children do you have?
Freeman: Two. Weissman: How old are they now? Freeman: About 36 and 38.
Weissman: You have a son and a daughter? Freeman: Uh huh. Weissman: Uh,
your education or any special training? Freeman: Had some schooling at
Pitt. University of Pittsburgh and real estate training. Weissman: Where
did you go to high school? Freeman: Peabody. Weissman: Do you remember how
old you were when you had your first job? Freeman: 16. Uh, just a part time
job. Weissman: In sales or? Freeman: Cashiering at the shoe store.
Weissman: In, uh, Sharpsburg? Freeman: No, downtown Pittsburgh. Weissman:
Uh, did your income. Of course. This refers to men, uh, support others than
yourself. When you were 16, did you contribute to the home? Freeman: No,
no, I only worked part time. Weissman: And, uh, your income. Did it ever
support others than yourself? Freeman: No. Weissman: Uh, some jobs that you
remember. Good jobs. Bad jobs. Freeman: I had no other jobs until I went
into business, so I went to. And in the real estate business, you started
as a salesman. Yes. And how long were you a salesman? I was a salesman for
about five years.
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Freeman: And then I went into my own. My own office. For whom did you work
when you were sick? I worked for Philip Kessler Agency, and then Scott
Hamilton and I went in my own business. And your own business is called
Morgan Freeman Real Estate Inc, and it's located in Mount Lebanon. Now, do
you know what your parents reasons were for coming to Pittsburgh? Well, my
mother came because her parents came. She came as a very young child. She
was 2 or 3 years old. My father came probably to avoid the draft and, well,
they left Europe. They left Europe and came here and came to Pittsburgh.
Yeah. My mother came to Pittsburgh because her brother was a physician and
McKees Rocks, and he brought her name, Dr. Rudolph Hanover. And my mother.
He brought the family here from Long Island. And your father? My father
came because he had a brother here in the grocery business. Mhm. They were
farmers. Dairy farmers. Hanovers were farmers in, uh. In, uh, Long Island?
That's right. Uh, do you know when your mother's parents came here? I
really don't. I really don't. I guess when she was 2 or 3 years old must
have been about the same era. It must have been before my father came
here.
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Weissman: And the first neighborhood you lived in when you were growing
up. Do you remember where the people in that neighborhood came from? Most
of them were of Italian and Polish descent. You still are in Sharpsburg. By
growing up. That was h. I moved out of there when I was eight years old and
moved to East End. Whereabouts in the East End? Uh, the Highland Avenue
area. Highland District. And where were the people from? In the Highland
Park District? It was a mixture. There were just all kinds of people. Some
Jewish people. How were you treated as a Jewish person or a Jewish child
growing up? Not a very wonderful growing up there. We belong to a Do you
want this? We belong to the B'nai Israel. Very active in it. My father was
very active in it. I was active as a child. And through Sunday school there
was confirmed there, had many activities there and had a good time growing
up. No problems. And how were you treated as a Jew? Any bad feelings? Not
really. Didn't know there was anything different about being Jewish. Any
problems because of being Jewish and finding housing or work? At what
period? Well, from childhood on, well, when we first came to this area, we
had an incident where we were going to rent an apartment and the realtor
called and said, Uh, do you have loud parties? We were two young kids.
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Weissman: At that point. We didn't even know anybody here. Was this in the
30s? This was in the 30s. This was 35. I. And then after the apartment.
Where abouts did you live? We lived in. In, um. We lived in an apartment,
Beverly Road. And we lived in Dormont in an apartment. And then we
eventually bought a home in Mount Lebanon. We, we lived in a duplex in
Mount Lebanon. We lived in Mount Lebanon ever since. Uh, where was the
duplex? In Mount Lebanon. In East Street? Yeah. Academy Avenue. And, uh,
then you moved here to Folkston? No, we moved to Vernon Drive, and then we
moved here. What was the first organization of Jewish people you remember
being organized or existing when growing up, but not Israel? Uh, do you
remember any important names of the people? Oh, Rabbi Lester was awfully
important. But Morris Davis family, they were important. Barney Davis. They
were very big in Temple. I know there are all kinds of people. Uh, who
would you say was the most important member or organizer of, uh, Temple
when you were there? Bene Israel. I don't know. I suppose the Davises were.
Of what class were they? I would say upper middle class, probably. And the
occupations of some of these people? I have no idea.
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Weissman: Or are they lawyers? Doctors? I really don't know because I was
pretty young when. So the most important organization for Jewish people
when growing up was Temple. The temple? Right. Did Temple ever make any
help available when needed, financial help or never requested any? Well,
this refers to fraternal. Do many of your friends now belong to the temple?
The old temple? It's been I've been away from there for 40 years, so that's
pretty hard to say. Uh, were you ever a local lodge or national officer?
Yes. Would you name the. Well, I was an officer of Hadassah. I've been an
officer. I was president of the state Released Women's Council of Realtors.
Very sudden. Somebody. Oh, didn't you hold an office? I was president of
Temple Emanuel of Sisterhood. President of Bethel Sisterhood. Can you think
of any others? I mean. We have led an active life. I know you were never
employed by a vice president. I went up the line in these various offices
and became president of both temples in the South Hills. For about how many
years were you active in Emanuel before you became president? Oh, I was the
second president. Oh. Were you ever a member of a labor union? No. I was
president of Beth El before. Before. Temple Emanuel was formed.
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I had been a member of that for about.
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Weissman: Four years, I guess, before. The Great Depression of the 30s had
an effect on almost everyone. How did it affect your life or your family's
life? Your parents or. Well, we really didn't get affected very much. We
had a job. All my husband had a job all the way through. And and, uh, we
were able to live within our means. And most people live modestly, and we
live the same way. How did it affect your parents or. Not really. They were
working. They had a business and some a lot of people didn't pay bills, but
they managed to struggle through. Any changes occur in Temple during the
Depression. Yeah, I was going into depression. I was at B'nai Israel and I
really don't know what happened to. Uh, did your parents keep any contact
with the old country? Did they write or visit? Oh, yes. My father brought,
uh, some people over some. And in fact, he had, uh. He brought his parents
over. And what was your father's first name? Harry. And he brought his
parents over. Who were Benjamin? And. They had, uh, he brought over a
niece. Another niece was to come in, and the Hitler put all of the family
in the gas chamber. We eventually found out she had a steamship ticket that
she never got to use during the years before Hitler. Did you people send
money to constantly? Constantly? My parents did. Any idea how much was it?
Was it a monthly thing? I have no idea what they did. Was it a monthly? I,
I really don't know that. And you lost contact because of the Holocaust,
right? And now you belong to, what, Synagogue or temple? Temple Emanuel of
South Hills. How often do you attend?
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Frequently. Pretty good members.
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Weissman: Skip some of the fraternal. What about the role of the rabbis
during World War one and two? Do you remember any? I really wasn't very I
was pretty young during World War One, so.
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I don't remember much about it.
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Weissman: Yeah, you do. You. Did the rabbi encourage Americanization? I
really can't answer that because I was too young. I know anything about the
differences between Rabbi Zivitz and Rabbi Ashinsky? I really don't know.
Any changes occur in the organization. Of course, there could be fraternal
during World War Two. How did the World War two affect you as a Jewish
person?
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Well, you know.
Weissman: Most people felt they had lost so much in family and. Have
little children. My husband was in a job that was. Parm deferred. Deferred
Job and metallurgy. Uh, did you ever save any money with an insurance
company? With a fraternal organization? No.
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And now we.
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Weissman: Are on to the ethnic group of your spouse. Where did he come
from? Well, these are the questions I ask you. Ask me. You want me to say
Jewish? Well, or. And what other, uh, country did his parents come from? It
came from Russia. Uh, did your husband ever belong to any fraternal
organization or fraternity? The cyber breath. No type of. Most crucial
aspects of being Jewish when growing up. Any questions? Uh, do you, uh, you
you stated earlier that you actually didn't have any difficulty. It was
quite simple for you see, some people in their 80s and 90s when they were
growing up and came to this country as, uh, now they would remember that
when they were teenagers, they didn't speak the language. Et cetera. Et
cetera. So it would be a crucial aspect for them. And now have you run into
any problems being Jewish? Well, not myself in the business, we've had
occasions, and it's a lot better now than it was. We had occasions where
there were restricted areas. Now, I thought there were restricted areas in
Mt. Lebanon and Upper Saint Clair, and they are no longer restricted. They
are now open. But this only goes back 4 or 5 years when they were very much
closed. And the country club is open to any idea about that? I really don't
know. I know they've been closed up until now, except with Rolling hills,
and it's a mixed group. Uh, well, how you say they were closed in Mount
Lebanon up until, uh, 4 or 5 years ago, or Upper Saint Clair. These areas?
Yeah. Yeah. For instance, are you referring to Virginia Manor's section
Westminster? I sure am. And, uh, if a, uh, Jew whose name was, uh, Miller,
which could be anything, would go to a realtor, did he ask them, Are you
Jewish? No, it wasn't quite that way.
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Weissman: It was just a matter that some way the people would find out.
Very frequently the buyer would say, I am Jewish. Am I going to be accepted
in this neighborhood? And you're referring to the Virginia Manor section,
Westminster and the other sections. Upper Saint Clair. Well, there are
various parts, various streets. Actually, the street we're living on here
was restricted when the builder built it. And that goes back so many years,
about 15. Years ago. Who was the builder? Yeah. Now, what aspects of
American culture came in conflict with your upbringing? Did you object to
singing Christmas carols in school? I did as a kid. Sure I did. Sure I did.
Anything else? I object and still do. To the music. Uh. Jesus Christ. In
the prayer. In a prayer. In a public meeting. Further. I think they just
sort of pray to God Almighty if they want to pray. I have no objection to a
prayer, but I do bring it in. Jesus Christ. Some people say he was Jewish,
so. Well, I have the same feeling. I mean, let's bow our head and say a
prayer to God. But I do, too. Yeah. What is the role of women in the
temple? Emanuel? What do they do? They do practically anything. They're
getting more and more. They're becoming members of the board. And I think
one day they'll be a Jewish president. And in the past they were active as
well. We have a Jewish a woman cantor there now, which is a first as far
as. And her name is Evelyn Amdur. And how long has she been Cantor? About a
year, year and a half.
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Unidentified voice: This is the second year.
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Weissman: The second year. Is there anything else about the role of women
at play Now? Read the Torah. They will participate in Torah services.
They're pretty much integrated into the temple. When you were growing up,
what group did you feel closest to your own? What group of people? Well,
when I was growing up, I had there was a large Jewish crowd that I grew up
with in East End. It was a group of Muslim, a very prominent people in the
city of Pittsburgh today. A lot of a lot of them are. Would you give me
some of their names? Well, it's Harry and Sally Shapiro. Frieda Goldstein.
Shapiro, who was been president of many organizations around here. Is that.
Shapiro With an A or yeah. Yeah. All the people from China. Angel
Milkshake. I grew up with all these people. They all came from East End,
the Porters. The Weinberg's. There were girls, but their father was
active.
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And they. And one of them was married to.
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Weissman: But but nevertheless, it was a large crowd and we had great
times and we enjoyed growing up. I was also very active in the Girl Scouts
for many years, ten years as a scout. And then I was offered for a while
and I became a leader at Saint Paul's Episcopalian Church here in Mt.
Lebanon. And how many years? I did that for about three years. Uh, what
group was most different from your own? I don't think as a child you notice
those things, particularly unless you're completely left out. I wasn't
eating or family have any prejudice or prejudice about any particular
group. Well, I guess they were glad I was going with a Jewish group. But in
those days, you really stuck pretty much to your own. Uh, how does, uh,
membership and leadership in Temple Emanuel affect your position in the
Jewish community? I think it had a great effect on my position because from
presidency I went into the real estate business and I think it's been a
great help to me. Help me. Or sent me clients. The people I knew did. And.
And I have appreciated all of this. And I tried to reciprocate whatever way
I could. And over the years we've answered the next question. Of course,
this refers to fraternal. Has it helped your family? But has it helped you
in your business? And you said in business it was, to be honest. You're one
of the first that has found that it did help. I think a lot of people don't
want to admit it, and I'm willing to admit that they they did help. My
first customers came from people I knew from Temple and from other places,
too, from. What my husband's work and that sort of thing. But you had a
nucleus of friends on the other side of town. If any of their children
wanted to move here and they knew you were in the business. That's right.
Next question. What class do you identify with? What do you mean by class?
Everyone asks that. Well, are you working class or. I would say upper
middle class.
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That doesn't prove it.
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Weissman: Well, uh, you, uh, has. His membership in Temple affected your
chances of moving to a higher class? Oh, you think so? As membership in
Temple Emanuel affected your position in the Jewish community? Yes, it gave
me some prestige and helped me on my way. Are members of Temple Emanuel
upper class? I would call them upper middle class. The majority of them.
How did they make it? Hard work. Oh, you wouldn't say. Some of them perhaps
inherited from parents? I would say not the majority. The younger people
now will, but the the average member made it on their own. There's a few
that have inherited it, but I've watched them growing from the houses in
Birdland from the 15 to $17,000 House up to the $90,000 houses, and well,
that puts them in a different class. I don't know how you figure this, but
most of them just did it by hard. Uh, it is. Membership in Temple affect
your excuse me position outside of the Jewish community? Not really. Well,
some one said when they were temple president, you traveled around, you met
people and they knew you were a sisterhood president in your case. I didn't
understand your question and I thought you meant it. Affect me locally with
other groups or something. Well. Well, outside of the Jewish community, I'm
outside. I don't think it's affected me.
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Particularly one way or another.
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Weissman: Do you know anything about the old Irene Kaufmann settlement? A
little bit. Uh, what do you know about it? I know it was on the Hill, and
they serviced a lot of Jewish people up there. I really never attended
their. Uh, did you ever hear of Anna Heldman and the crusade to clean up
prostitution and gambling in Pittsburgh? I don't. I probably have heard of
it, but I don't know. Uh, know anything about the red light district in the
hill? Well, I know they had one there, and. Street that was up there, but I
never was up there. Uh, anything about the founding of Montefiore Hospital?
I don't really know when that was formed. I. Basically a Jewish hospital. I
probably still is. When you were growing up, what type of jobs did most
Jews have that you knew? Most of them were in business. They were
businessmen. What type of business? Grocery clothing. And of course, some
professional people that were doctors and lawyers. What do you think of
intermarriage? I would prefer not to have it, but.
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I will accept it if it happens.
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Weissman: Have your views on Zionism changed? Some people were not at all.
I was not at all zionistic. I believe in a homeland for the Jews. I thought
they could have settled anywhere. But since I've been there, I'm willing to
support Israel. But would you say that many years ago you weren't
interested in that at all, but now you feel a little more strongly?
Actually, I've been a part of Hadassah for many, many. And they are a
Zionist organization.
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So I got to say I was interested in it. Uh.
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Weissman: Have your, uh, feelings become stronger? They're pretty strong
right now.
