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Beckum: Because I know I'm probably the abnormal Black.
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Presbery: Yeah, you do have quite a lot of experiences that--
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Beckum: But not of the other side. You see, you're not hearing from me
what you would probably hear from most Black that have hate in their mind
and thoughts of terrible things that have happened to them in living in
this community. I didn't have that experience. Neither did my family,
really. And whatever happened to them, they were able to pull above it. It
was more or less a help than a hindrance.
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Presbery: What do you see as the most significant event or occasion in the
history of the Black community in Pittsburgh?
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Beckum: Well, I guess this is true. No matter where Blacks--their
awareness of what they are capable of having and they're no longer living
in a like a sleep world, you know, we more or less moved and did exactly
what you were told. Now they're adventuresome. They'll pound on a few more
doors and demand entrances now. And this is-- they're more or less coming
like I guess the Irishman when he came into the country and had to be the
low man on the totem pole and he demanded his place. The Black is doing
that now and it's happening all around us and it's beautiful to see.
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Presbery: In your opinion, who are the most outstanding individuals now in
the Black community?
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Beckum: Well, we're still have to put that minister in the front
foreground because our politicians can't hang on long enough, you know. And
it's seemingly, we haven't yet been able to pull our strength so that we
can really be felt in the Pittsburgh area. Um, so I would say that the
ministers in the area are still wielding the most--well, more strength. Now
in our school board, we were very fortunate now that we do have a second in
line as the head of the school board in Mr. Walker, which is beautiful and
a good example for our young people to have and to see. But other than
that, there is a Black teacher, there's a Black educator, and there's the
minister. And the Black businessman, but he still will sponsor the football
team and the baseball team in the Black community. And they always had high
strings are coming in to him out of the Catholic Blackness. Their
awareness. We see them pulling more into the interest of the Black child,
encouraging them to culturally better themselves. Things are moving. Yeah.
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Presbery: How did you feel about Amos and Andy?
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Beckum: Well, I grew up in an age where the way Amos and Andy was acting
was always a joke. I don't think Amos and Andy ever really bothered the
Black person because they were a joke to them. The young people think all
of a sudden they are making, uh, they're saying that was absolutely
terrible. But I mean, Amos and Andy was always a laughable situation, you
know, In fact, we you been the joke among the Black folks. I mean, you call
each other Amos and Andy, you know, and make fun of them, Black people
dealt with things like that with a different type of humor. Uh, it wasn't a
rallying point to fight on, you know, it wasn't that important. Uh, but,
uh, what was important perhaps would be something like, uh, a fact that
union wise, we couldn't get in.
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Beckum: And become a union member in the mill. Were just were excluded.
Amos and Andy would be on air acting Black, Colored all they want to. As
far as ethnically, most of us talk like that, [???] like that.
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Presbery: And you don't think well, you personally don't have any any
attitudes against it, but how do you think that Black people as a whole at
that time felt about Amos and Andy being White and-- Beckum: Half of them
didn't even know it. Presbery: But was there? I'm not too familiar with the
whole situation, but was there something about them going on television or
they were almost going to put them on television and people got-- Beckum:
But in Black face? Presbery: Yeah.
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Beckum: I can't imagine them being quite that bold. But, you know, the
White man will do about anything. But this is why I say with tongue in
cheek, because when they did hit television and put Black people in, they
acted the same way [laughs]. You know, if so, if it was such a rebellious
thing, immediately they would say, well, I'm going to play the role, but
I'm not going to play it so slovenly. I'm not going to whine and do an Amos
and Andy. You know, Black folks came right on Amos and Andy and did it the
same way, same script, same everything. They weren't [laughs]-- so far as I
was concerned, it couldn't have upset them too much.
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Presbery: What kinds of changes have you noticed in TV shows and
commercials with Blacks since that period?
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Beckum: Well, you know that question, when my son first got in, he went to
a Catholic school and his first paper was on TV commercials. He went down
through the line. He said, why? He said, why? Why is there always a White
dove? And the who was that? Was it all? Everything that was White, You
know, the spic and span was the White Charger. You know, when he almost got
kicked out of school on this paper, he said he was, which is a young
attitude. You see, this is coming in and this is beautiful. We need that.
Now they can stretch their wings and say these things. But as far as the
idea of now seeing, knowing that Black people use deodorant, Black people
comb their hair, Black people have cosmetics and Black people, and that
shows that the market is in demand for them, for the White man wouldn't
utilize you no matter what. Black communities are putting quite a bit of
money into these things and that's the only reason why they are getting
recognition, because they don't want to lose that mighty dollar and that
there is a selling market to the Blacks. So we're-- we're beginning to make
a few pennies doing that.
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Presbery: Um, in the 1920s, the membership in the Ku Klux Klan was over 6
million and it's been steadily increasing. [Beckum laughs] Um, do you have
any memories of some of their activities or are there any of their
activities that you've heard about or that you know?
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Beckum: Well, there was areas in the Pittsburgh area, you know, with the
Ku Klux Klan would burn crosses. Wilkinsburg, you never went through the
Wilkinsburg area. Now there's quite a few Blacks out there, but I
understand they still burn crosses in Wilkinsburg, Penn Hills, when they
want to. And it is like you say, that it's always been an underground Klu
Klux Klan in Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh area, and we've always known about it.
But as far as them actually doing anything, I know when they were trying
to-- we lived on Frankstown Road at the borderline. And if you were ever
hear of anyone trying to buy a house on out into Penn Hill area or out
toward Monroeville area, then they were supposed to be things like the
hoods riding through the and burning a cross and threats and garbage cans
being turned over, tires being sliced, you know, and things like that in
the Black community. But um, like anything else, I understand not too long
ago we had a report of them burning across up there in Penn Hills on this
other Black family. So they're still there. That--that certain things
aren't going to change. Even in time. You're going to have this type of
person who lives and holds on to, I guess this little feeling that he's
better.
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Presbery: Um, what do you think of Black participation in the United
States bicentennial?
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Beckum: Well, I have a student that writes music and she said, I just
found the American flag. She's real excited. I'm getting ready to present a
program of her music in May 16th. And she wrote a song about the American
flag. She said, I never knew and never felt that I had a flag or a country.
She says, but for some reason now I have just discovered the American flag
and this woman is older than I am. She's in her 50s. And I looked at her
and I said, you know, that in itself is a story for a Black to say. That
it's 50 years she's been in this United States of America and just feels
right now that she is a member, a part of this country. And she has written
a beautiful song for the bicentennial piece about the American flag. And I
said, Well, Dorothy, I'll make it as beautiful as I can. [laughs] And this
is what she told me, she said, I just found out that I have a country and I
just feel a part of it now 50 years after being living here. Presbery: Wow,
that's really something. Beckum: And she often would say things like to me,
she said--she said, you know, you just aren't Black. You know, your
thinking isn't Black. She said, you'll just walk into anywhere and
everywhere, she said, but most Black people can't do that. She says, I
don't know where you come from. And I said, but I've only lived here. And I
guess I've come through a certain, I guess, a certain narrow path that was
protected.
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Beckum: And I've been blessed.
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Presbery: Okay. Um, I'm certainly [unintelligible]. [laughter] But is
there anything that I brought up anytime during the interview that you
might not have had a personal experience with, but again, that your parents
or grandparents might have once told you about, that you think back on--
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Beckum: I know you're trying to find, uh, something within the scope of my
family that can be said, you know, with the country or the United States of
America, uh, made an experience that was unpleasant or a part of their life
that wasn't just ideal. No one-- I really and truly can say this, no one in
my family has been held back to the extent where it brought them pain. Now,
they probably could have been greater people. Uh, but because of their
attitude in living, they lived what they could to the fullest of their
abilities and walked out with their heads high. Now, if we could back them
up and bring them here now and let them stop, those Baileys and Cassons and
Beckums would really be something because they had a lot of stamina and
came through an area with more than most Blacks were able to. Most Whites.
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Presbery: Okay, that's about it for the tape.
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Beckum: Good! [laughter]
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Presbery: Thank you very much for your cooperation.
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Beckum: Alrighty. I hope you do get a hold of Catherine. Presbery: I will
try.
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Beckum: And find out about a Pittsburgh Black American who I feel, that
has really done something as far as bringing fine music [unintelligible].
