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Presbery: Okay. What changes occurred in your organizations during the
50s? The 1950s.
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Beckum: I should remember the 50s because I was a college young lady and
trying to be very up with it. And on our campuses, now, this would be when
the liberal area of Whites was concerned. I was at Wilberforce and the
White school would actually integrate the drama class. And the service
fellows started coming on campus to go to school. If they lived in Dayton,
why should--or if they lived in Xenia. Why should they go to Dayton to
school when there was a Black university right there. Now, they didn't live
on campus, but they enrolled and it started being in graduation classes,
White Faces, see? They just said, well, it's accredited school. Uncle Sam's
paying for it and I'm going to stay home. I'm going to go to school right
where it's close. So then you started experiencing that type of thing on
Black campuses--that was new. Of course now, it's no big deal, as you can
get in school. There's still a Black emphasis, but White people will come
in. There was always even at Wilberforce, there was an integrated faculty,
you know, like your German teacher or your French teacher would be White. I
don't know how Black child. I think because of the service man being able
to get his education free, campuses became overcrowded with male students.
I'll always remember we'd stand and find out how many males are on campus.
It was like 12 to every girl. Presbery: Mm. I wish I was there. [laughs]
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Beckum: Oh, it was heavenly. Heavenly. And they put up barracks right
quick to accommodate all these service fellows coming on and like, you're
18 and the average boy that came out of high school with you, was just a
baby. Because there were fellows on campus, freshman, who were 23 and 24.
[laughter] So that was a different world for the Black girl to contend
with. She had to grow up fast because you were dealing with an older man,
and most of them had, let's say, been to Paris and been overseas, been to
Germany and whatnot. And now they were getting their education. They had
more money than had normal high school kid that came in with you because
Uncle Sam was giving them an allotment. So then you found quite a bit of
marriages happening on campus. Out of my graduation class alone, that
junior year you were--every year you were coming back and they were like 12
to 15 married couples returning. Next year you'd come back--we actually had
a community of marrieds. We lived in the barracks, shared the bathroom
facilities, and there would be like 5 or 6 married couples in each
barracks. I guess that was the beginning of that because of that older man
and the younger girl, more marriages were happening in school. Quite a few.
Every summer you'd come back and more married folks.
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Presbery: How did the wars that happened, the wars that our country were
involved in, how did they affect you as a Black person?
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Beckum: Well, I can state [??], when the Korean War broke out, my husband
had just gotten his commission in the ROTC and he had graduated and I was
there my senior year, came back to school and he'd stayed in Aliquippa, PA,
working in the mill, couldn't get anything else to do. Degree in his
pocket, but working in the mill. And that Korean War. And he had a
commission and I went to the post office to pick up our mail because we had
lived on in the barracks and I kept my post office box, although I had gone
back to the dormitory. There was Uncle Sam's greeting for him to report for
his physical. That--that Korean War did a lot of damage. We realized that
the Black man moved from the subservient. He no longer was cleaning the
latrines and driving the trucks. There was too many of them with Black
commissions coming off the college campuses. And we were having memorial
services about once a month for somebody that we knew was in Korea and had
gotten killed. And I'll never forget when I went to the post office, I
picked up that greeting for my husband and I called him up and I was on the
next train home because it was just the idea of--Bacon,one of the young men
that we just had a memorial service for him and he had been killed. I had
quite a few--it was a change, you see. Used to be you had safety. Even
though you went to the service, you knew you weren't going to do anything.
You know, you might guard prisoners, but now that it changed, our Black
boys are getting killed because they were given a gun and told they were
going to be real soldiers and it was a different war. And of course, from
that war on, you know, the Black soldier has had to. He's in Korean War,
Vietnam War-- Presbery: Yes, he's quite an active part.
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Beckum: Until that point. World War one, World War two. Our Black boys
really just drove the trucks. Cooked, cleaned up the officers, quarters,
boats and all. But after that Korean War, that Black man knew what it was
to get the bullets coming in his direction and was given responsibility to
be a real soldier.
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Presbery: In fact, I feel they made him too much out there in the front
line during this Vietnam War.
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Beckum: Well, there was just so many of them. See, like when I said when
my young brother came out, there was nothing else to do but go to the
service. So many of our young men during the Korean War and the Vietnamese
war, there was no work. And they very well let Uncle Sam educate them. And
what happened was they had to live to get that education. And there was
just so many of them going in. There were more Black folks signing up to be
soldiers, and the White fellow would go to college. We couldn't afford go
to college until Uncle Sam gave us the money. So he had to go to service
first to get your money so you'd come back and go to college, if you live.
Mhm. So it was really a Black career war compared
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Presbery: Um, do you feel that the NAACP encourages you to change your
values or your attitudes in any way or your behavior?
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Beckum: I really don't know. I hope they distill pride because they tell
you that if you're qualified, they can find work for you. And this is
something that I think has made the Black more aware of the fact that, you
know, you're not owed anything just because you're Black. You have to be
qualified. And you find that the NAACP tells them that you're qualified and
you can do the job. We'll get around here and ask these companies how many
they need. No color in it, just how many do they need? And we can find
them. We'll send them. And we're finding work in this way.
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Presbery: Did you ever save any money or hold any insurance with the
NAACP? Did they have anything set up?
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Beckum: I don't know if they have that. I don't know if they have that. I
have no idea.
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Presbery: Mm hm. So then--
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Beckum: Their solicitation has always only been membership as far as I'm
concerned. Now, if they have shares or whatnot, I don't know. I have no
idea. It never approached me in that respect. They've only asked for
membership.
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Presbery: It's obvious to me. But for the tape sake, what is the race or
ethnic group of your father? I mean, of your husband?
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Beckum: Oh, he's Black American. Presbery: And, um-- Beckum: I think his
mother had quite a bit of Indian in her. Cherokee. They always bragged on
that in the family.
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Presbery: Mhm. And uh, the what again were the organization that he
belongs to.
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Beckum: Well, he's a member of the NAACP and as I said, works along with
the Urban League in his capacity as being an administrator in the school
system. And he's, um, belongs to the Black fraternities like he's an omega
man--Omega Psi Phi fraternity. He belongs to the American Legion and to the
Masons.
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Presbery: Um, did any of your children, brothers, sisters or other
relatives belong to the NAACP?
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Beckum: Most of my family, as I said, I had a brother that was an officer
in the NAACP in the Greensburg area for about five years. And this hasn't
been more than 3 or 4 years ago when he moved to Erie. And then that ended,
you know, but he was a minister in the area and that's usually what they
pull on. Mhm.
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Presbery: Okay. When you were growing up, was there anything besides color
that made you identify yourself as a Black person?
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Beckum: I never identified myself as a Black person. [laughs]
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Presbery: Oh, well, what did you identify yourself-- Beckum: Just as a
person.
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Beckum: A human being. Uh uh, quite a bit of family pride, really, and
truly didn't realize that there was any difference in people. I've never
experienced being told that.
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Presbery: Um. Were there any aspects of life in Pittsburgh that came in
conflict with your upbringing? Beckum: Nope. Presbery: Did your-- oh, you
didn't have anything? Um, what was the role of women in this organization,
in the NAACP, and what has it been and what's their present role?
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Beckum: In the NAACP? They've always utilized women. And in fact, I know
that sometimes in the office there, there've been headed by women. You
know, and my sister, I didn't even think to say this. My sister, headed the
NAACP in the Chicago area for quite a few years, she was the president.
Mhm. And um, so I think the NAACP will utilize those people that are
available and qualified to work. I just never have been, you know, an
active person in the NAACP as far as holding offices.
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Presbery: Is there any specific race or ethnic group that you consider to
be relatively close to the Black race?
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Beckum: I haven't come in contact with any other group except for, you
know, the Black group. You know, I've never lived in an area where there's
Filipinos or, um, Mexican Americans or anything like that, so I really
don't know. I don't have any. You've either been Black or you've been White
in my life.
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Presbery: And generally, you don't have any any impressions, even if
they're not directly related to your life. You know, when you maybe see
them or when television or in the media, you know, other races.
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Beckum: You know, like even when we were on campus, we had kids that come
in from Africa, well I'd say that's Black. So I couldn't, you know. And
although they spoke differently and we used to love to hear them talk with
their little British accents or those that came from different dominions,
had a little accent, but that was still Black.
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Presbery: Is there any ethnic group that you feel is most different from
Blacks?
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Beckum: Most.
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Presbery: Well, might I suppose. I think what they mean-- Beckum: Like
Orientals? Presbery: --when they break it down. Yeah. I think what they
mean when they break down these ethnic groups would be maybe Italians,
Jews, Orientals, Indians, Puerto Ricans.
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Beckum: I grew up with Italians. Frankly poor, poor folks, poor folks, you
know. Italians, when they're poor they're... Or even in the middle class
area, they're about the same. They would pass their dishes across the fence
and mother would pass hers over. They would change, exchange like pasta and
whatnot. And mother would exchange her favorite greens [laughs] because--so
mama would pick the dandelions out of the yard and give them to me. And she
would, you know, cook them as greens and mom. So, I mean. No, really. Um.
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Presbery: Okay.
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Beckum: And I didn't know any wealthy ones, so I guess there would be a
difference if you came in contact with. But if you were in an area and you
all lived about at the same level. Mhm.
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Presbery: Um, how does your membership or did your membership in the NAACP
affect your position in the Black community.
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Beckum: No way. In no way at all.
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Presbery: Mhm. Has your membership helped your family in any way.
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Beckum: No, because I have had a, you know, a son that just graduated from
college last year. Now his--because he was living in an area where his
uncle had worked in the NAACP and more or less, although it's predominantly
a White area. Greensburg, Pennsylvania, strictly hillbilly area for rural
Whites and then very wealthy from one extreme to the other. But he was
able, seemingly to gain work because I guess he was a little supposedly a
little basketball star school there at Saint Vincent and they knew him in
the area. Oh, he didn't want to teach school and he couldn't get on at the
radio station. So he ended up at the one of the school members said, best
place to work and make great money is to go into the water works. And he
said, Well, I didn't take any chemistry. And he said, So? You know, go
ahead in and tell him you want the job. You can start down to the level and
take chemistry on your own. So this kid walked right out of school into a
water works position. He's the only Black out in the field and there's one
in the office and at least he's working. Take care of his wife, living
comfortably.
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Presbery: Um, has your membership affected your immediate family, your
marriage, or any other aspect of your life at all?
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Beckum: I was trying to think if Charles went to NAACP. He was trying to
get on at the school system, but I don't think he did. I think he just went
in and applied to be a substitute, knowing that they weren't hiring. You
know, you had maybe 1 or 2 Blacks. Mr. Peeler was with the school system in
music. A few others. And being a substitute for a while. And then he worked
to [???], he became a permanent teacher. But, um. No, really? Okay. Um.
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Presbery: Has it helped your business?
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Beckum: I haven't utilized them. Like I said, I don't have a business. And
the children that come to me for music are like community children and like
anyone else, have a music studio that teaches piano. Then they usually the
parents around the area call them and say, Well, I want Johnny to take
lessons. You know, and we are a community where the parents do want to give
their child that type of outlet to go to dancing school and take music. So
this is all the new Black thinking. Expose their children to much more than
when we were coming out. You know, we just frankly couldn't afford it. Now
they'll sacrifice and send their children.
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Presbery: How does your membership affect you professionally or
politically?
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Beckum: I haven't had to utilize it in any way. Having drawn on that at
all because I guess I've never had any problems.
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Presbery: What class do you identify with?
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Beckum: Blacks. What do you mean, class?
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Presbery: Class, um, economically.
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Beckum: Well, I guess into the middle range. My husband makes about 20,000
and more a year.
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Presbery: Do you deceive any class distinction in this in your
neighborhood?
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Beckum: Well, I live in a Black neighborhood. I live in a Black
neighborhood. The neighborhood isn't like it was 20 years ago. More Blacks
are moving in, and, uh, we're fighting to keep it at least above slum
level. Mhm. So they're beginning to put more money into our neighborhood.
They're tearing down the empty houses now and giving those over 65 the
free, uh, repairs, you know, and we see improvements coming into our area.
Slowly but surely. Which is worth fighting for because in any community you
don't help just to when you get a few years above and then move out to
Monroeville or another White area which soon becomes Black.
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Presbery: Um, economically, how do you consider most of the residents of
this community?
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Beckum: Well, we used to think that we were the Black middle class area,
period. But on the last survey in this area, we were listed well, surveyed
three years ago, we were listed as a poverty area. So that's when all these
things became available to us. We could put in for these houses to come
down for these cars that were left on the street to be towed away. And, um,
you see, before they didn't even come because we were supposed to be above
that area listed above that area. And most of the Blacks that have moved
into the Beltzhoover area have bought White homes that were below a certain
level and they were keeping them up. And even improving upon--the level has
improved area since the Blacks have been in. Now that we are listed as
poverty area, there's quite a few more Blacks in that are making as much
money. Where we're utilizing that now and making demands for certain care
care that we are eligible for. So houses are coming down, improvements are
being made on the streets and as I said, it's going to be better. They're
conscious.
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Presbery: Would you say that membership in the NAACP would have any effect
at all on individuals moving from one class to another, moving up in
class?
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Beckum: I think that the NAACP does quite a bit. As I said, now, we at
least when you come, our children can come up. Those that can go there that
are qualified, they can get the jobs because the NAACP puts their feelers
in all areas. They have folders on them, Westinghouse, [?????], and so
forth. All these businesses and companies, US Steel.
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Presbery: Are any or many of the members in the group considered upper
class.
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Beckum: You know, Pittsburgh, and I can really and truly feel safe in
saying this, isn't built on the class system. Like, if you go to New York,
it's only doctors, teachers, you know, that come together. Or if you go
into the Chicago area, you wouldn't dare have a a postal clerk on the same
level with the doctors. But in Pittsburgh, it's just like if you go to a
social functioning in Pittsburgh, it's just as apt to be the postal clerk
there, the mill worker and the doctor, the lawyer, the teacher, the White
collar worker. They're all together. They really are. In Pittsburgh, if you
have the money, whether you borrow it from the loan company or what, and
can afford to be in a certain place, then you're there. It's not as
stigmatized in some areas where you have to be educationally qualified to
be a part of a group. It's not that way in Pittsburgh. I've had many people
come in and comment and say, I'm talking to that fellow and he told me he
works at the mill, you know, how did he get in with this group? Where, as
in some groups it's just that social climbing and you just can't get in.
But socially and work wise, too, I think that's another reason why perhaps
the level of improvement is able to move faster in Pittsburgh, because you
could be a mill worker, meet a doctor, and he'd say, Well, listen, I have a
friend at Carnegie Mellon, get your son a scholarship. And that's how you
get these kids coming up and moving out.
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Presbery: Okay. Does your membership in the NAACP affect your position
outside the community? The Black community?
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Beckum: Not that I know of. [laughs] I have never called on the NAACP for
anything. But I also feel that if I needed them, they would come through
for me. But I've been fortunate. As I said, I've never needed them. Who
knows? I still have a child or two children in school who haven't come out
yet and I don't know, they might have to utilize it after. I happened to
have two boys that were very tall and their height and their ability to
play basketball is educating them. One has got his degree and the other
one's in Roanoke College now, playing ball for his degree. And I have a
daughter that will come. This is her junior year, so she has one more year
in school. She's a scholar. And I said, if you only have to educate one out
of two, you're pretty lucky. [laughs]
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Presbery: And these are the last questions. You know, it won't be long
now. Okay. When your family was in the South, did they belong to any
specific organizations for Black people? If there were any at that time.
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Beckum: Now, let's see. What would it have been? Especially on daddy's
side. They were everything, you know. Being that Frederick Douglass was the
was the family, um, rallying point, everybody just rallied for the best
they could be. And my father's mother was a midwife and delivered the
children in the Eastern Shore, Maryland area down around Denton. All up in
that way, she delivered all the babies, White, Black and in between. And so
she was considered, um, quite an important lady. And I was trying to think
other than the church, because we would go down to Maryland for, for church
reunions is that I always remember that. And they all gathered at the like
the little old church way back in the woods. Other than the church. Now,
let's see. I had a relative that had a store and he ran the post office in
the store. Mhm. I'm trying to think what else would it have been besides
the Masons? There really wasn't anything else in the South except the
church. And then they always had this. They all get dressed up in these
Mason. They were potentates and whatnot. And it was a social thing. Um,
those that were interested in that. But it was mainly as far as I can reach
back, the church.
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Presbery: Arriving in Pittsburgh where there have been any organizations,
then they joined up with once they left the South and came here?
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Beckum: You were a Mason, that was it. I can't think of anything else. I
really can't. Church. The church was always the background-- backbone for
the Black person. They gathered there. They came there for help. And even
when you leave the South, your parents would tell you, well, now if you
want to find a good family, and a good meal, and help, you go find a church
and usually told us to find a Methodist church. Mhm.
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Presbery: Um, did your parents do any teaching to you about color
consciousness?
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Beckum: No, not at all. Except the fact that we were as individuals,
somebody, you know, just a fine person. And that way I think it was good
because I never felt a color line. I really didn't. And, uh, but I was very
proud. I didn't. There was no inferiority in my thinking. And no, no one
could tell me that I couldn't go and do anything anyone else could do
because I didn't feel that there was any reason for me to not to go.
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Presbery: Did your parents ever talk about the 1919 steel strike in
Pittsburgh?
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Beckum: Well, see, um, now, Daddy might have experienced that because he
was working for a, um, auto wrecking firm. You know, when he would, they
would tear up cars and whatnot. And this is when he lost his job, And they
even named a crane after him. He was supposed to be so strong. They called
it Big Al because Daddy could just move anything, you know, foolish and
young. And he was the crane and they had to replace him with him. But he
probably experienced that as a young man. That's why when the Depression
hits, as far as the steel strike, you know, we lived right at the steel
mill. I used to watch the glass furnace. I lived on First Street. You look
right over the hill, down across the railroad tracks, we see the steel
mill. Really?
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Presbery: Do you remember the racial disturbances of the 40s?
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Beckum: 40s. I'm trying to think what disturbances were there in the 40s.
We had moved from Rankin. I'm trying to think what was happening in the
40s. My sister had gone to school. Webster was running around looking for
work. C. C. C camps were all over the place for young Blacks mostly, and
poor Whites. Um, WPA was sweeping streets. Maybe you get a broom and a
cart, you know, and make a few pennies. Then what happened racially? I'm
trying to think in the 40s, the zoot suits, the guys start wearing all that
long hair and zoot suits. That was just before the war broke out, huh? Oh,
I can't think of any incident. Let's see. My brother played on the football
team in Rankin. Can't think of anything.
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Presbery: Well, how do you feel about the younger Black movement since
Martin Luther King? Any things that--
00:26:47.000 --> 00:28:27.000
Beckum: Well, it's--it's a--it's a part of growing. It's a part of
growing. And it's very necessary. I'm fortunate I was distilled with Black
pride. I was distilled with pride, period. You know, it didn't have to have
any color. But most of our young people and most of our families weren't so
fortunate. And of course, I'm sure there were other families with Black
history, Black pride held on to it through the years, not just Casson and
Bailey family. There are other families. But an overall thing, those that
came out of the Depression years and knew poverty and knew, uh, perhaps,
uh, I was just thinking, like you were saying, my husband's father would
tell me how he would work in the mill from 6:00 in the morning until 9 or
10:00 the next night. Come home, eat, sleep, get up, be back there at 6:00
in the morning. Those 14 hour days and 16 hours a day that the Black man
experienced in the mill--mills then. They were out of the home. They just
came home and slept. So the Black youth of today is more or less determined
to have more because they can see more. Look at what we can look on
television. How are you going to tell a Black young person that they're not
supposed to have what they see everybody else having on television today?
They brought it into the home. It used to be you went to the movies and saw
Fred Astaire dancing on clouds and whatnot, and you say, well, you know,
nobody can have that. But the thing that you see on television today are
just supposedly be normal families. And you say, well, I'm not I don't have
that. I'm going to get it.
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Presbery: And what do you remember about the sections of the Hill
District? They were once called Arthursville, Minersville, and Haiti. Do
you remember anything?
00:28:35.000 --> 00:29:35.000
Beckum: Not really. We weren't allowed down into the Hill. So you didn't
go there. And I remember they had, um. You know, when I was about 13, my
first date took me to the Butler's club. That was in--in Lawr--um, in
between East Liberty and the Hill. And then we went to Crawford's Grill.
Well, when you got back home and I told Mother I'd been to Crawford's
Grill, you'd have thought I'd been to Haiti. [laughter] You went into the
Hill? How'd you get in there? I said he just took me. We just went, Mother
and listened to the music, you know? And I said it was a good time. You
just didn't go into the Hill. And the young boys that would go or young
fellas that were dating or trying to go into the Hill to date girls were
ran out of the Hill. You know that crew. You just didn't invade different
territories. So as far as the Hill per se, now, I went there to sing. Sing
in the different churches. But that was Sunday and that was in the daytime
hours. But as far as being a place to go, that was no place to be found.
You just didn't go in there. Now, the opera company had their headquarters
in the Hill back in 40s, and so I had to be there for rehearsals and
whatnot. But you got right on the streetcar and came straight out of that
Hill. And many of the girls would say, let's go by Crawford Grill and
whatnot. I said, no, I got to go home, you just didn't stay in there. And
as far as I'm concerned, it wasn't nearly as rough in the Hill then as it
is in our communities now.
