WEBVTT
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Beckum: That's Catherine there. She was younger.
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Beckum: Can you imagine that many Black folks on a stage? This is La
Traviata we did. All dressed up in costumes and singing French. [laughs]
Presbery: Really? Do you speak French? Beckum: No. No. We were all tutored.
In fact, as far as having any language in my background, I don't know of
it, you know, I've never held on to. Now, my son has married a little
Creole, a girl from New Orleans. And she has that in her and I said hold on
to it. [laughs]
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Presbery: We spoke before about your education, but I'm going to go a
little bit farther back now and ask you about your first job. Beckum: Well,
my very first job. Let's see. What would that have been? Well, when I came
home my freshman year from school, I was in love and I wanted to buy a ring
for my, um, fiancee. And so I thought I would run an elevator at
Mannsmen's. It was a little department store in East Liberty, and I ran the
elevator for the summer. I was able to get enough money together to put
down on my fiancee's ring and I thought I was really something. [laughs]
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Beckum: But I happen to have a father that didn't believe in working. He
just wouldn't let you work.
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Presbery: Oh, okay. Oh, so that was right after you got out of college?
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Beckum: No, that was my freshman year. I was only about 18, 19.
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Presbery: So that was here in Pittsburgh? Beckum: Right. In East Liberty.
A little store.
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Presbery: Well, I guess we could calculate the year. You would've
[unintelligible]
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Beckum: Let's see. I was just going for--that would be about 1948.
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Presbery: Okay. When does your income first start to support other
people?
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Beckum: My income? Well, I guess, you know, as most young marrieds, you
all both have to get out and make it. I did secretarial work and that was
at Saint James AME Church for about seven years. And after my third baby
was born, I decided to come home. I didn't--I had two boys first and I
didn't particularly want to stop working.
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Beckum: But when I had my little girl, I decided it was time to come home
and raise that little girl because I really wanted a daughter. And then by
that time, Daddy had been working pretty good and things were leveling off
and we could afford to let me come home. But those first years of marriage,
everybody worked to make it.
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Presbery: Can you recall any of the other jobs that you had?
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Beckum: Other than being a secretary for a church, running an elevator,
and then teaching for the school system. That was it.
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Presbery: So the highest paying job would be the teaching job?
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Beckum: Right. Teaching pays me, what, $12 an hour? 12.50 an hour, but I
only work for four hours and on Saturday.
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Presbery: So. And you teach in the public school-- Beckum: Yes. Presbery:
--system? Beckum: That's it.
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Beckum: This is a special, governmentally funded program. Although it's
through the school system because I only deal with voice students.
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Presbery: And do you have any idea what your parents reasons were for
coming to Pittsburgh?
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Beckum: Well, Daddy came here because his oldest brother was here, you
know, and he wanted to get off the farm. He was down there in Baltimore,
Maryland, and wanted to get away from that what he called hard work. So at
age 16, I think he ran away from home and ended up in Pittsburgh, where his
oldest brother lived, following north and figuring he could get a better
job that wouldn't require him working so hard.
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Presbery: How did he come to Pittsburgh?
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Beckum: I guess they gave him bus fare or something because he managed. He
came in on the bus with a suitcase and boxes and whatnot.
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Presbery: And you said that his brother was here? Beckum: Yes. Presbery:
Do you know how long his brother had been here?
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Beckum: My Uncle Henry had been here long enough to have a home. Purchased
a home out there in Homewood on Monticello Street and I think he worked for
the railroad. He was like a porter, which was considered great money, you
know, for Blacks to be a porter. He made money and he lived here. So I
guess that was anywhere from, let's see. Now that's gonna be 12 years. He
would be close to late 70s, early 80s. Well that would be about, I guess,
60 years ago.
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Presbery: Well, this question is what was the nationality or ethnic
background of most of the people in your first neighborhood? But you
already said it was a mixed neighborhood.
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Beckum: Yes, mostly Italians. Next door, the other side across the street.
Mostly Italian neighborhood. Both in Rankin, I think we had Chicarone. I
think they were [??] people. But it was quite mixed.
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Presbery: Would you like to talk a little bit about the neighborhood, how
things were.
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Beckum: Well, it was a mill town. Although we lived on what was considered
the main street, daddy would not even send for mother. They lived in the
country, out there in Bridgeville until he could get a home for her. As I
said, I had a very proud father and mother said, well, just a room
anywhere. He said, no, it has to be on the main street and it has to be in
a good neighborhood. And this is it. He waited until he could get a house,
house his family not in an alley. Oh, that was definitely not to be. And it
had to be on a main street where, you know, as much as he could afford, but
in a nice neighborhood.
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Beckum: So this is way--way, I think they lived on First Street in an
apartment up over a like a store or dry goods store.
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Presbery: Since you and your family weren't originally from Pittsburgh,
were there any problems that you faced as a result of living here in
Pittsburgh?
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Beckum: Not at all. Not at all. And even like I said, I had a--even in his
working in the area and even when he died, if you could have just seen the
many White people that came in to the funeral parlor and would say, well,
Al always said, you know. They would say things that he said and they
respected him as a businessman. And he was able to educate his family and
he was a very proud Black in the area.
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Presbery: How about adjusting to the different environment?
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Beckum: No problem. He was gonna make it, you know?
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Presbery: Well, okay. About you individually, you know, growing up. Were
there any problems that you faced, you know, as a child growing up in the
Pittsburgh area?
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Beckum: I really and truly can say no. I really and truly can say none.
Even to the extent of. Like coming time to graduate and stating that no
Black ever sang on the graduation program. That wouldn't happen. And I
said, well, why not? We ended up three Blacks sang in Westinghouse's
graduation program for the first time. They never had one and all of a
sudden three for a program to do because they were had beautiful voices and
were beautiful people.
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Beckum: So, no. Not in any way. In fact, I often hear of so many things
happening and I've never experienced even prejudice to that extent and I'm
as old as I am in the area. And I'm sure it's been here, but I often
wonder, daddy always said this, that prejudice is in your mind. If you are
a person that is a slave within yourself, then you are a slave.
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Beckum: And if you're free, you just walk free. And he did. He really did.
As I said, he walked in and told them, I need $25 for a truck. You know?
[laughs]
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Presbery: At the time when you were in Westinghouse and the three Blacks
did get on, um, what was the percentage or maybe you don't know the exact
percentage, but what was the ratio like between Blacks and Whites in
Westinghouse at that time?
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Beckum: Very few of us.
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Presbery: Very few. You could count them?
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Beckum: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Now, like, um, even if I got my yearbook,
comparatively, you know, it's nothing like it is now. If there were three
of you in each class, four at the most and that was it. The rest of the 20
would be White.
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Presbery: So that would be like what, maybe 1/5th? Beckum: Mhm.
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Beckum: We went to our 25 year reunion, you know, and I was stating
that--stating that I didn't realize how few of you, you know, were in your
school class--graduating class. Until you go to a reunion maybe out of
three, 3 or 400 children that graduates, you had 60 Blacks.
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Presbery: So you said that you never actually experienced any prejudice.
So, were there any members in your family that had any problems due to the
fact that they were Black in, say, finding housing or finding work? Beckum:
Not really. Not really.
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Beckum: I have a sister who was married to a minister who worked in the
Department of Public Assistance. Left there, headed the department in
Chicago. Really, as far as they've wanted to go, the family could have
gone, you know. As a matter of seemingly, there's always doors to open and
walk through. And it doesn't mean that we were content in being little and
not doing much either. It just seemed that, um, and when you hear of other
people, you have to say, well, I know it happens and I know it does happen.
But we were blessed in the extent that I really feel that there are a lot
of things that we did not explore as being Black people.
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Presbery: What is the first organization that you can remember that was
organized for Black people in Pittsburgh or maybe even nationally?
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Beckum: Beside the NAACP and the Urban League, that's it, isn't it? It's
you know, they always had Masons and American Legion, you know,as far as
you can. There was always the Black Masons. And then the American Legion's
always had their Black clubs, but that was more or less a social world.
They--they lived in the that was for social. Legion's only had like a beer
garden and they paraded you know it was time what Memorial Day and all of
the um war days that they would celebrate V-Day, they paraded and other
than that I can't think of anything the American Legion did for...well,
they sang pretty at best. I always remember when if you were American
Legion, like that, or a Mason, all the men would come, you know, and they
sang. You'd have a lot of men there. But I can't think of anything except
NAACP And um, our, um, Urban League and the Urban League would be about one
that was always functioning, always getting involved. And the NAACP He was
always there fighting for injustices that was happening. Making you aware
that you should get out and vote and making you aware that these things
were happening in your community. And if you want to do anything about it,
you have to--you have to give.
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Beckum: But I can't think of any other Black group. And all the Black
fraternities and sororities come out of college and stay together. It's
more of a social thing where they're together really not to do too much as
far as politics are concerned. Now the younger people are more conscious.
Rally their Black attorneys to come together to do something.
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Beckum: It just wasn't that way eight years ago, it was just social.
Presbery: Do you remember any names specifically of important members of
the NAACP or the Urban League who were around at the time, you know, when
they were organizing?
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Beckum: In the Pittsburgh area? Well, it always in the--in most of the--it
would be the ministers of the area, like in the Urban League and the NAACP.
Oh, Tally was always very active--Reverend Tally. Reverend, um-- he's dead
now.
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Beckum: And I'm trying to think. Reverend Casey was always active in the
NAACP and encouraging office holding.
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Beckum: And then when OIC came into the area where they had more or less
went out to get government aid for our Black workers, you know,and the OIC
opened and then the ministers again were there. And then Reverend Pugh came
into the area and worked--he's now passed-- and headed it for a while and
then he turned that over to, uh, I can see him but I can't think of his
name.
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Beckum: I'll think of it later.
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Beckum: And that's about--and that's about it.
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Presbery: Do you know when this organization was founded? The NAACP?
Beckum: What year? Presbery: Or around--approximate. Maybe even the
decade.
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Beckum: I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. Presbery: Well don't be. Beckum:
I became aware of it, let's put it that way, I became aware of the NAACP
frankly when the upheaval was happening in the Black community.
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Beckum: You know, let's say anywhere from maybe five or six years before
Martin Luther King. And then the rallying point. The NAACP was able to pull
Blacks together in bodies, you know, to do something, to send in the
letters. Letters to Washington letters because the NAACP had contact, you
know. So it would be, as far as I'm concerned, maybe 20 years that I can
truthfully say that the NAACP became a medium for me to work through. And
I'm sure it was probably around many years before.
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Presbery: What do you feel was the most important organization for Black
people while you were growing up?
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Beckum: I guess the Urban League.
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Presbery: And why did you feel it was important?
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Beckum: Because that's where you get employment. You know, when you come
out of school, you go down to the Urban League and see if you can get a
job. Summertime, it would--boys would go there.
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Beckum: If they didn't go there, they usually went to the service.
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Presbery: Um, did either the NAACP or the Urban League ever help you when
you needed any help? When you might have had any problems?
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Beckum: No, I never utilized them in that respect.
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Presbery: And do many of your friends belong to the NAACP and or the Urban
League. Beckum: Most of them. Most Blacks are conscious of that now.
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Beckum: Hold memberships in both or use both.
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Presbery: Were you ever an officer in the Urban League--
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Beckum: No. No. I had a brother that was the president of the NAACP in the
Greensburg area for about 5 or 6 years. Headed one of the divisions.
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Presbery: You were--were you ever actually employed by the organization?
Beckum: No. Presbery: And were you ever a member of any labor unions?
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Beckum: No.
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Presbery: Were you? How active have you been during the time of your
membership in the in the NAACP? And how active are you now?
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Beckum: Not active at all, really, except for just taking out that
membership, you know. As far as anything else? No, not at all.
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Presbery: Do you know of any relationships between the NAACP and other
unions that might have been formulated even though you weren't a member of
any specific union?
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Beckum: I really don't.
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Presbery: The Great Depression of the 1930s. It had a big effect on a lot
of people. How did it affect you and how did it affect--I mean, how did it
affect your family?
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Beckum: Well, that's what I was telling you, that daddy went and asked for
$25 and receiving that bought a raggedy truck and was actually able to feed
and care for his children and build that into a business that was capable
of educating six of them and himself. And living comfortably these days.
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Presbery: When you were-- you were just being born, right?
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Beckum: Well, I was old enough to watch the other children go down and
come back with wagons full of food and couldn't understand why we couldn't
get any. Christmas time, toys would come in by and everybody had toys and
see, because of Dad's pride, we weren't on welfare, so we didn't get these
things. And we got sugar candies and cookies and places like the stores and
the grocery stores would send, you know, the spoils home and mother would
cook them and they'd send us a turkey. Because that's where he worked,
hauled away all the rubbish.
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Beckum: But as far as toys and warm coats. Mother had to make her own
things. So that type of recreation.
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Beckum: We knew that there was a depression. There was a difference in
those on welfare and our little home, which would only bring in what Daddy
would go out and earn.
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Presbery: Do you remember anything of your parents friends that it might
have affected either greatly, more greatly than affected you or not at all?
Or.
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Beckum: Well. No, I really don't. As I said, they all ate and they were
all they stand in line to get their groceries and came home with them. And
we all made it in one way or the other. I can't say that there weren't any
great hardships around me, I didn't really realize that at all. Especially
what you-- what you don't miss, you never had. [laughs]
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Presbery: So then, since you don't remember the NAACP as far back as it
starts, you wouldn't know any kind of changes that might have occurred. It
wasn't--it wasn't even formulated that far back?
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Beckum: I doubt it. You know, everyone, frankly, was suffering. The
country was suffering. I think the NAACP really probably grew out of that
war. World War II. The CC camps were over.
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Beckum: When the boys were coming back into the country. Where could they
work? What could they do with--where would they go to be put on? Or sent to
somewhere within reach. Then the NAACP [unintelligible] -- that need.
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Beckum: So many Black boys flying in here and needing work or go to school
or get their benefits from the government.
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Presbery: You are a very close family, family and you do keep a lot of
contact with-- you mentioned that before. With the members who don't live
in Pittsburgh, how is that contact kept up? Kept up? Is it usually by
phone? Or by visiting?
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Beckum: Because the Bailey Casson side of the family come together every
two years. It's a well-organized family reunion with officers. And we are
recorded all births, all deaths, all those who get their degrees and those
that get their recommendations or go up the ladder. All this is brought
together in booklet form, and every two years we all come together. Each
child is brought up together to date on their family heritage and what has
been happening, what hasn't been happening. This is '73. We were in
Baltimore, Maryland. These are some old pictures of the Baileys, great
aunts and so forth and so on. And there we keep that. We keep the history
of our family on on my father's side in our eyes, everybody that graduated
who was born, things that different ones did. Uh huh. This is the type of
contact that we have. And it's on file. Messages from the president,
greetings. And this is. Each one has one of us take their place to keep the
family together. So this is how that's on my side of the family stays
together. And this would be a typical program where we come together and do
things for two days.
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Presbery: Are you in the habit of sending money or gifts? Or anything like
that to other relatives that live in other part. During the intermission
between the times when you have the family reunion?
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Beckum: As far as gifts, that only happens for graduation. Everybody that
graduates, you all are getting married. You know, the invitations go out to
all the family because we have a mailing list kept up to date as to where
we are. So Christmas time, you hear from all members of the family. You see
now there's 78. As they grow, they add on. Now it's 86. See? And so you
send cards at Christmas time and everybody that marries everybody that's
born and they all get notices. Before the birth, they get sent gifts,
little pieces of money or something like that. And of course, with death
you send flowers.
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:27.000
Presbery: Okay. You talked a lot about your family. Family reunions. This
question is what were your family reunions like? [Beckum laughs] Is there
anything that you left out that you think you might want to add to that?
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Beckum: I can't think of anything except that it is very history
orientated. The family on my father's side realizes that the Black had no
roots and they were determined to let us know as much as possible that we
were from great stock and that we had something to be proud of. And it was
always said, You are a castle and there are certain things that you cannot
do and you better not do. And if there were mistakes made into the family,
the family always band together no matter what it was. And we band together
for strength and we were usually able to come through it, whether it be a
child, perhaps had gotten into trouble.
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:21.000
Beckum: Like you're saying, money and financial aid. It was always there.
If those children wanted to go on to school and couldn't get any other way,
at that meeting, the money was paid out.
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.000
Presbery: When you were growing up, did you belong to a church?
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:42.000
Beckum: Oh, yes. We're very as I said, I have a family of preachers. My
brother's a minister and my sister is an evangelist and she's married to a
minister. And so very, very, very, very close as far as church is
concerned.
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Beckum: My father was a steward at Saint James AME Church in East Liberty
until he died, and he worked diligently in his church. And as I said, I
direct church choir, worked for my church, I always had. Was a secretary at
my church before I came home. So that type of thing.
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:11.000
Presbery: So then you was always pretty involved with the church
functions. Beckum: Very much so. Presbery: Um, can you give a little more
specific other than what you said? The choir and stuff.
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Beckum: So I am a choir director and I have a brother that is a minister.
I have a sister that is an evangelist. She is married to a minister. I have
a baby sister that is a teacher but worked with the choirs in LA. Sings
with the choirs in LA--is a paid singer.
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.000
Beckum: But they're all orientated as far as the church is concerned.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:37.000
Presbery: When you were growing up, were there certain auxiliaries in the
church that you particularly--
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:56.000
Beckum: Well, when I was quite young, I used to be in charge of the
nursery department of Saint James AME Church, you know. And I mean, that
was just like age 13. So I was orientated to be a working part of the
church. Of course singing in the choirs.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.000
Presbery: Were any members of your church not Black?
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:08.000
Beckum: Now, at Saint James, I really don't think we ever had any White
members. Not as long as I've been there.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.000
Presbery: Did you have any activities with White churches?
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:24.000
Beckum: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, there was. Especially--we had very good music
departments at Saint James. Sometimes we would come together and do things
musically. Contatas, Oratories.
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:48.000
Beckum: But not too often. Not too often. They just started this business
of open church worship where maybe once a year they'd have the coming
together of all denominations. Even Catholics have joined now-- they never
did before. But once a year you would have like the Council of Churches
coming together.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:58.000
Presbery: When we talked about the NAACP, you said a lot of leaders were
ministers. Beckum: Right. Presbery: So that, would you say that the church
and the NAACP have a close relationship?
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:08.000
Beckum: Very close. Very close. In fact, they really stemmed from one
another. The Urban League depended on the church completely in the
beginning. And still does.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:23.000
Beckum: You should see membership time. Every church has a, you know, a
couple members sitting out in the lobby taking memberships. That's where
they make their main contact, frankly.
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:39.000
Presbery: Okay. Um, when you were coming up, what was the the main or
basic role of your minister? The minister of your church, as a minister
were most ministers that were around while you were growing up. What was
their basic role in the community?
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:55.000
Beckum: Well, for the Black in the community, all problems were solved by
the Minister. As I said, if you needed a job, you know you can, you say-- I
mean, Nelson might need a job, what do you think I should do, and he'd pick
up the phone and call NAACP.
00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:26.000
Beckum: Got anything down there for any of the kids or everybody gone to
camp. They always had a camp worker. [??] Mary [??], she had a camp where
you could work. Wouldn't require too much of a wardrobe. You know, you
could just get your blue jeans and your tennis shoes and work the camps.
And so you went to the ministwe for things like jobs and, of course, any
problems, if you had any problems.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.000
Beckum: They would solve them and they tell you where to go if they
couldn't solve it.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:39.000
Presbery: What was your minister's reaction to the World War? Not, you
know, your ministers, but whatever you might have heard of it.
00:27:39.000 --> 00:28:31.000
Beckum: You see, there was no rebellious attitude toward them. It was just
like everybody else. They felt that patriotic duty to defend your country
and many of our young men, frankly, after coming out of the Depression when
World War One came. My brother was only 16 and he just, Mom, please sign so
I can go. I can't go to school. And he was a very bright boy. He graduated
from high school at 16 and he couldn't afford to go to Wilberforce. My
sister was there already and it was all Daddy could do at that time was
keep one child at Wilberforce University, which was a Methodist school, and
so really that was like a godsend. If I can go to the army, you know, and
I'll get so much money on a month to live on. And I think he went in at 16
when he was 17, D-Day fell and he was over in Africa.
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:59.000
Beckum: And I'll never forget my mother when she screamed at the idea that
she had seen this boy in and thinking that it wasn't going to be any active
war because he had been in CC camp and had been fighting forest fires and
he had asthma. And they had to release him from there. Only thing he could
think, well Mama, I'll go to the army. At least I'll eat and have some
clothes on. He couldn't work with Daddy on the trucks because of his
asthma. So this was a boy that was just more or less blue sands.
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:06.000
Beckum: Somebody says, well, at least he can go off and find something to
do and keep him busy, off the street corner.
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Beckum: And then that war broke that Christmas and he was in Africa by
17.
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.000
Presberry: When you were growing up, did your minister encourage
integration?
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Beckum: I can't remember it. I can't remember it. We just didn't you know,
you were just together. It was a Black strength. That's it. I can't
remember. You're very comfortable without it.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:54.000
Presbery: What kinds of changes occurred in the organization like around
World War Two? Or can you remember any kinds of changes that might have
occurred in any Black organization around that time period?
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.000
Beckum: I can't. I can't. Let's see.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:56.000
Beckum: I know Daddy became what we'd say, what Black people would
consider quite wealthy because he bailed the paper and scrap iron and all
these things were in demand, and he was able to very quickly obtain wealth.
In fact, it was so fast he couldn't quite adjust to the fact that he would
brag that he could make a hundred--
