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Interviewer2: Yeah. Yeah. How about prohibition? Do you remember much
about that? Antimo Bagnoli: Well, I tell you, I'm glad that they abolished
the prohibition because it was real tough. Bootleggers all over. And oh, my
gosh, people were killed. Not too many in town here, but a few. We got 3 or
4 here. But one of the greatest shame here in Bradford was nominated Earl
Ritchie, chief of police, and he was one of the biggest boozer, not the
boozer bootlegger that ever was in the area around here. Interviewer2: He
was nominated
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Interviewer2: for chief of police?
Bagnoli: Chief of police. He dished out a lot of money here and there and
then nominated the chief of police.
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Interviewer: I've mentioned to Ray that when he was killed, he was on the
police force, wasn't he?
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Bagnoli: He was on the police force? Yeah. Was a fellow there on River
Street. Nice guy. He wasn't making a little bit of a boozer for himself and
a few friends, you know? So. So Ritchie went over there and says, Hey, you
got to quit that. We got a monopoly on that guy. Said, Don't bother me.
Hello? He said, I'm making a little bit. I don't hurt anybody. For me, a
few friends of mine, you know. He told him 2 or 3 times. Then he went. One
day he said, Now listen, I told you to quit that. And he tried to put his
hand in the pocket. The guy had a gun. Boom. Do you want to give to me?
I'll get you. And I saw him. I had a friend of mine, he had a tailor shop
at the corner of Chestnut and Main.
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Bagnoli: I was in the afternoon. I was standing. I was in this place
looking outside. I heard the ambulance come over and I watched there and I
saw I don't know who it was, but he was jumping like a rattlesnake in that
in that ambulance. And when he got to the hospital, he died. He died. He
got him good, huh? Yeah, that's all. Yeah. And they didn't do much with
that fellow. The one who shot that, you know, went to jail a few months and
they said, yeah, they were glad to get rid of him. Yeah.
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Interviewer: How long has he been in town?
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Bagnoli: Well, I would say he was in maybe seven, 8 or 9 years. I don't
know. Yeah, but he was a lot of power. Well, sure, with all that money,
booze, money. Hey.
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Interviewer: What would he have come from? Bagnoli: I don't know. I
don't.
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Bagnoli: Know. I don't know where he came from. Yeah. And what a lot of
bootleggers from Buffalo came over here and there was a street also they
had the quarter. Oh, boy. And to make the money. Yeah. To get that alcohol
there to buy them for a little bit and sell them for a high price. Oh the
money was flowing. Interviewer2: Yeah. All in their hands.
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Interviewer2: Where did they get the. Did they make the alcohol around
here? They have any stills around here?
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Bagnoli: Well, mostly, though, that was came from other places. You know,
they used to carry it here, but I don't doubt if they made some of their
own at all. Still, the few stills, because I remember one time we had a we
used to make our own wine in the club, in the Italian club, and one time a
barrel spoiled went to vinegar and a fellow said we were going to throw it
away. He said, Don't throw it away. Give it to me. I'll make something
nice. I'll call out of that. He did. He had a little still, you know. So it
was his stuff here, too. And he did too. Uh huh. Yeah, I'll call. He
brought some to the club there. He was nice. Then taste the vinegar to
extract all the alcohol and then other stuff with Roy. Yeah. You said this
is a vodka.
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Interviewer2: Oh. That's good. Bagnoli: Oh, my gosh.
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Bagnoli: So there were a few guys making an alcohol here, too. Yeah.
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Interviewer: Well, it would be the same today, right? I mean, if there was
if there were prohibition today. Bagnoli: Sure. Interviewer: We would want
to drink. All three of us would.
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Bagnoli: Certainly.
Interviewer: And if somebody was providing the service, we would buy it or
we would make.
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Bagnoli: That's right. That's right. It's to make home brewed beer and
all. Oh, a lot of people used to make home brew here in town and they used
to sell it, you know? Yeah. But the Bootlegger didn't care about the home
brew, but the alcohol. I don't want nobody to make alcohol, just them.
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Interviewer: If you made the home brew, they wouldn't bother you?
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Bagnoli: No, they wouldn't bother you much.
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Interviewer: After prohibition. The after repeal effort.
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Bagnoli: And then they faded out and they faded out. Interviewer2: Where
did.
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Interviewer2: They go? Buffalo? Bagnoli: Buffalo.
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Bagnoli: They were mostly all from Buffalo. Uh huh. They expanded. And all
over these little towns, huh? A bunch came over from Buffalo here. I
remember them yet.
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Interviewer2: Can you remember any names other than Ritchie? Any of the
names of any of these people?
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Bagnoli: One was Shaka. Shaka. The other one. What was his name? The big
Chief.
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Interviewer: I've heard of Midgey. Midgey?
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Bagnoli: Midgey from Buffalo. From Lutheran limestone. I mean limestone.
What the heck was the other guy's name now? And I can't think of it, big
guy. Yeah. There was a rough time. Oh, my. Oh, boy.
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Interviewer2: Did they pay. As far as people would know. Would they pay
you off the local police? Bagnoli: Oh, certainly they did.
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Bagnoli: Oh certainly they did, because what the heck? They knew just
everything that was going on in their places there and never bothered. They
used to pay off weekly, you know. Interviewer2: Uh huh. Where were.
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Interviewer2: The speakeasies in those days? Were they in one section like
I think I heard?
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Bagnoli: Well, we didn't have much of speakeasies. They didn't sell them
by the shots. They sold them by the courts and the pints and half a gallon
and a gallon. Uh huh. But they had on on there was a street that they some
people that they knew they used to go over there and buy a little bit. But
they used to sell it all the sale, in other words. By the pines. At least
we should go there too. By the hundreds. By a pint or a quart. Yeah.
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Interviewer2: Did the church, like Saint Bernard's? Did they have any
ability to help people during the Depression?
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Bagnoli: Well, they'd done a little because, after all, they. They live on
charities, too. They helped a little bit whenever they could. A little. But
I know that they helped quite a few students who couldn't go to college and
help them going through college. Yeah. But I imagine I don't know now if
they contributed to it. You see, we used to have a super, super kitchen
here. People used to go here that go over there with the some kind of
container and get a little bit of that broth that they used to give. And a
lot of people didn't have anything to eat.
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Interviewer2: Where was that? In the armory.
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Bagnoli: Yeah, the armory. Then I think they had in the city hall for a
while there. And then they had other places too. They used to cook and
distributed. A lot of people used to go. And one thing I want to tell you
now, very few Italians were to. Very few. Because a talent is a trip for
the person. If he makes a dollar, you don't spend that dollar. He tries to
spend $0.50 or $0.75 and $0.25 goes on the side. They're all like that. And
when the depression came, most of them had a little money. Very few went to
the soup kitchen. Uh huh. Yeah.
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Interviewer: Now, this is something we've talked about before. A little
bit. I all my life I've heard this, you know, not only from Italians, but
from other people, too. They're in Bradford, especially. Very few Italians
on relief.
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Bagnoli: That's right. That's right. Even now, find them in Italian. There
is an array. No, sir. In the first place, they have a little pride. You
know, they want to work as a good worker. Yeah, they work. They want to
work. And as I said, they are thrifty. I tried to save. You know, they're
all like that. Other people make $50, they spend 60. I don't care. Then it
comes out. By the time I don't have anything, I surely don't have nothing.
Spend it all. Yeah. Well. Oh, I say, the tan is a little by little. You
know, they got married, they bought the homes, you know, and a little money
in the bank, you know, done pretty good. Yeah, but they worked. They
worked. Boy Italians worked. Worked a lot.
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Interviewer: But this is one reason why I. I felt, you know, when we were
talking about people to interview in my personal feeling is that Italians
have done a lot for Bradford did in making the town. Bagnoli: They did.
They did. Interviewer: And uh, you know if you read books about the oil
industry and things like that, uh, the writers have maybe neglected to
mention the Italians.
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Bagnoli: Yeah, well. At the beginning, there weren't too many Italians in
the oil industry, you know. But then later on, they started the journey.
And as I said, you know, the language was the main barrier for the Italian
to expand. In other words, they kept close to themselves. As I said, an
attractive that an Italian, a boss, a, they didn't need to speak English,
you know, they spoke Italian and they built all his tracks and they kept
kept them in good shape, too. You didn't hear any wreckers here when they
had the Italian gang? No racks, rails. They were beautiful. Now, every once
in a while you hear a train goes off the track because they don't take good
care of it anymore. Because the companies railroad, the companies went
bankrupt. Then we got a few people there. I wonder if they know what the
hell to do. But the Italians, they kept the railroad good and built the
roads and buildings. And it worked.
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Interviewer2: How about WPA? Do you remember the kinds of things they
built during the Depression? Anything about that?
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Bagnoli: No, not that I. I think I remember back in the 30s. I didn't
build much in this town. This town. Everything came later. For instance,
the flood project. There is beautiful job there done in Astana. We needed
to that came, came I there for quite a bit. There was a building of 40 late
40s or 50s, I think.
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Interviewer: How about some of these things? The town needed some of these
things, but. We didn't get them.
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Bagnoli: No, they didn't get, they didn't get them. Well, I'll tell you
why. We are the Roosevelt, the Democratic. And McKean was a Republican. And
so I said, the hell with the McKean County. I don't get nothing at all. Uh
huh. That's all. That's the way it works. That's why that a bunch of
Italian fellows, they want to change, you know, they want to see if we
could get an administration, at least in McKean County. And Bradford,
Democratic was a mixed, mostly Republican, few Democratic Green But that's
what happened every time I Bradford Typekit for something the answer was
no. Because it was a republic. It's always been a Republican county.
Always. So we didn't get nothing from Roosevelt. When something like that
to happen. What they want. They want a road. They say what What party is in
power in the McKenna County? Well, it's a Republican. I get it. It's all.
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Interviewer: So we have floods every spring.
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Bagnoli: Yes. So that's the way it works. Politics, you know. Boy, oh,
boy.
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Interviewer: Let's, uh. During World War Two, I think you went back to
drafting, didn't you tell me?
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Bagnoli: Yes, I was down the drafts there. I. What? Right? Yeah, a little
bit, you know? Yeah, I was having a That's my wife. Hi. How do you do?
Well, I was having my teeth fixed with Dr. Ryan, which was. Who was the
mayor at that time. And he knew I was a draftsman. It was in 1941. So one
day he asked me, he said, Why don't you go down there? They need a
draftsman down there. Well, I had a good business at the barber shop, you
know, And I said, I don't know. He said, They need him, you know. Okay. I
didn't go. I went the second time and said, Did you go down the. No, he
should. They need him. Well, finally I went third time to Ryan. I said, I
see you got the job, didn't you?
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Bagnoli: He said, no. He had a daughter working in Blueprint room upstairs
and she was telling him about the Tony working over there. It was another
Tony was this. Tony Torelli was working there. He says, Yeah, Tony works
there. So he said, You got the job. Know why my daughter says you work
there? Oh, no, I'm not. Well, he said, By gosh, he said, Now I'm telling
you, you got to go. They need them. Need them bad. So I went because I had
another barber in a barber shop, then Mega Bazaar. Do you remember him? So
I went, okay, so he took my fingerprint. He said, Go to work.
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Bagnoli: Oh, no. I said, I can't go now. Well, when? Tomorrow morning. And
I worked most of 40. All 42. And up to October 1943. I wasn't the highest
paid draftsman in that place. Not to brag. I was good. Good at it.
Everybody praised my work at the Bureau. I could do both. Even my. The
engineer in the school said the boy. You do a beautiful work. I like it. I
like it. That kind of work. And the 19 of. 43. I always ask the Torgler was
the chief, the boss there in the department? Can I go? No.
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Bagnoli: And then I would ask, can I quit? No. Finally, one day I went,
Hey, mister. I have a business that is deteriorating at the shop, you know?
After all, when I quit here, I lose all of my customers. Can I go? Well, I
said we'd like to keep you, but if you want to go, go ahead. Things started
getting slower than the say. Okay. I said I'll go then. And I quit. And in
October 1943, I worked one year. Two years and a half for that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I used to quit Thrasher. 20 minutes to five and go up to the shop and
work up to six, seven, 8:00 in the evening. Then on Saturday, I. I was
working half a day at the dress and got to work at the shop for the rest of
the day Saturday I up quite a few customers that way, you know. Yeah.
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Interviewer: You should have seen this guy's shop in the 40s or 50s. The
best crew cuts in Pennsylvania.
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Bagnoli: Oh.
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Interviewer: Oh I see what you have on Saturday of. But, uh, you, your
shop used to be packed, maybe sometimes 20 people in there.
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Bagnoli: Oh, gosh.
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Interviewer: Everybody came there for a crew cut.
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Bagnoli: Oh yeah. I used to give a good one. I still do. Still. I still
have quite a few.
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Interviewer: They're coming back.
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Bagnoli: No, but people have never changed.
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Interviewer: Yeah, some people.
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Bagnoli: Never, never changed. They still get flat tops. I used to give
good one. I still do. Good one.
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Interviewer2: When I had more hair, I used to get a crew cut.
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Bagnoli: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I, uh. I learned how to cut that. Flattops used
to call flattops. They were really nice. Nice. I used to get people from
Salamanca. Olean, buffalo. A guy came from Buffalo. He said, Are you Tony
Bagnoli? Yeah. I heard you give a good flattop. I said, Try me. I said,
Where are you from? Buffalo. How the heck you know? Well, he met Bruce. Oh,
that is his name now.
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Interviewer: From. From Bradford.
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Bagnoli: Yeah. Anyway, a guy from Buffalo went-- from Bradford to went to
Buffalo. He just got. He said a cut from me and he went to Buffalo and it
was in a place, then a beer joint they were eating and this fella was
watching that fellow's haircut. And finally he went to ask him, He said,
Where did you get that haircut? He said, I got it in Bradford,
Pennsylvania. Oh, my God. She said, boy, he said, I like the haircut. And
he said, What's the guy's name? He gave me the address and the name. By
gosh, I don't think he came to Bradford on purpose, but maybe he was around
here. He said, I'm going to. And he come over and he was a pleasant, you
know, boy. It's the best laptop I ever had. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I used to get
them from morning to night. The steady. Yeah.
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Interviewer2: So how do you. Do you have anything else? Interviewer: I was
going to ask you about business. Do you feel your business was was stable
during the Depression? Since you had a trade?
00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:42.000
Bagnoli: Yes, it was a stable. Well, during the Depression or no, because
that's when I learned my.
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.000
Interviewer: Well, that's when you were learning.
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Bagnoli: Yeah. Yeah. 1930. I learned the trade. It wasn't until about 34
or 35 that I started getting quite a few customers.
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Interviewer: But even then, a lot of people in other fields of work were
still having trouble.
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Bagnoli: Oh, yes, of course I remember. I had a 22 person. I used to give
a haircut for nothing. 22 don't work, don't have the money. And most of
them never paid them anyway. No, no.
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Interviewer: But these were people you knew.
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Bagnoli: Yes, people that I knew. 22 is to come steady and get that card.
I'll pay you. And never paid.
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Interviewer: Well, I just put it on the cuff.
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Bagnoli: Hey, that's all right. Interviewer: It was a.
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Interviewer: Lot of that in Bradford.
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Bagnoli: Oh, heck, yes.
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Interviewer: But, uh, I remember when I was a boy. When Oscar Carlson
Bookstore. Oscar Carlson. The corner of Main? Bagnoli: Yeah. Interviewer:
People used to tell me that during the Depression, in the bad years, people
needed medicine. Yeah. You know, on the tab, On the cuff. A lot of it. He
knew that he would never get the money, but he was a good man. Oh, yes,
they told me he did.
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:15.000
Bagnoli: Yes. Quite a few stores. The people owed him three, 4 or $5000.
They bought the groceries and never paid them. Huh. Yeah, well, it's pretty
tough. The boy was pretty tough.
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.000
Interviewer: You think if it happened again, you think businessmen would
do it today?
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.000
Bagnoli: Oh, do the same.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:23.000
Interviewer: Same thing. You think people today are the same as they were
then? Bagnoli: Same.
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:26.000
Bagnoli: Worse. Worse today.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:35.000
Interviewer: No. I mean, uh, say a young barber or a young man running a
grocery store. Do you think that he would give the people a credit?
Bagnoli: Yes, I think they would.
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:55.000
Bagnoli: I think they would, yeah. And what are you going to do now? I
figure these are people don't work. They don't have a cent they need a
haircut or what the heck? Hey, give him a haircut. Yeah. For two, three,
four years. Cut their hairs for nothing.
00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.000
Interviewer2: How about doctors during those days.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:21.000
Bagnoli: Doctors got a hooked it too. Yeah, they got a hooked it too.
Especially the old doctors know they were more understanding, you know, a
bit. Doctors are. They were saying, Oh, sorry. But at that time, the old
dads. Okay, you pay me when you can. Yeah, Yeah. It was tough, though. Boy,
oh, boy was tough. I'm telling you.
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:30.000
Interviewer2: What did it do to families, You know, like, did families
break up because of problems? Man not working for years did that.
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Bagnoli: Yes. Yes, they did. Yeah, they would. They would break up. Yeah,
some, of course. Pretty it off, boy, rough. Become a believer to blame the
Hoover, but I don't think he was to blame. It's like when you get you
started getting a cold and that turns into pneumonia. And I had something.
I had to come start the little by little. And then finally it exploded.
Yeah. And he had a president we had that couldn't help it. Yeah.
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:16.000
Interviewer: So you think it was just the system, then? Bagnoli: That's
all.
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Bagnoli: That's all that was inflated. The economy was inflated, and it
just stood there so long. And then just like a balloon burst upon. And that
was that. Yeah.
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:36.000
Interviewer: How about you mentioned Italy. Other countries in Europe got
these cushions that people can fall back on. Well, we didn't have those in
Italy.
00:24:36.000 --> 00:25:43.000
Bagnoli: Was Mussolini at that time? Interviewer: Yeah. Interviewer: And
he kept everything under control pretty good. The prices didn't rise, and
he tried to create a lot of work. That's when he started to build on all
those superhighways there in Italy, say. Yeah. In fact, the first
superhighway was built from Rome to the sea. That's the first superhighway.
The first one. And it kept those people pretty. Pretty good shape. But
still felt that they felt as though they are, too. You know, because you
take a country like this, it goes into a depression. The imports don't come
in anymore. There's a country that suffered, too, that sell the stuff in
the United States, products in the United States. So there is a little
nation, while the effect is not don't reverberate all around, but a big
nation like it is, it can help it. Every other nation felt.
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:48.000
Interviewer2: Did many people do like gardening and stuff like that?
00:25:48.000 --> 00:26:20.000
Bagnoli: That's when everybody had a garden. They used to call them. No,
no, no. That was the winner Victory Garden. But everybody started building
a garden. Like me up there. I got a garden. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of people had
a garden. Then I started raising something. I used to go in the woods to
pick mushrooms or blackberries or anything they could.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:28.000
Interviewer: I think it was easier for people here in Bradford to get by
than it was for people in other places during the hard times.
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:34.000
Bagnoli: Well, I imagine it was rough for them at all.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Interviewer: But say someplace where somebody couldn't garden, you know,
they didn't have the land saying, you know, here maybe somebody had a
little back yard they could grow. Bagnoli: Well, that's what I mean.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:04.000
Bagnoli: If they had the ground they had, they would do it. Some people
take in town. They wanted to have a garden in town. The houses are just too
close together and nothing in the back. Almost a lot of places they can't,
but where they could when they had a garden. A lot of people started. Yeah.
Yeah.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.000
Interviewer: Do you think the Depression was as bad in Bradford as it
was?
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:20.000
Bagnoli: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, it was bad. It was real bad in town. Yeah. In
fact, I would say Little Town is like a smethport Tamandua. It wasn't as
bad as Bradford.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:21.000
Interviewer: They weren't as bad as Bradford.
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:40.000
Bagnoli: There wasn't as bad. Yeah, because over there, the economy was
abysmal, mostly. And on the land they didn't have much factories. But here,
when the factories started closing. Oh, boy, that was bad.
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.000
Interviewer: Now, you mentioned you work for the Silk Mill. Did a silk
mill close before?
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:50.000
Bagnoli: They didn't close. Didn't close, but slowed down a lot. Laid off
a lot of people.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.000
Interviewer: But they must have closed sometime during the 30s, didn't
they?
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:58.000
Bagnoli: Yes, back in the 35 or 36. And then they closed down entirely.
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:03.000
Interviewer: The building was empty then until Corning came in. Bagnoli:
That's right. That's right. Yeah.
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Bagnoli: Yeah. First they had the frozen, freezing business there. Yeah,
they put that there. And then last very long.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Interviewer: Frozen food.
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:45.000
Bagnoli: Yeah. Frozen food locker. They put that in. Interviewer: And
dresser. Bagnoli: A dresser used to work a day or two days or three days.
The business here and on Davis Street to what they call business. Most of
the time was closed. Then they would call them one day. Two days. Oh, that
was bad. Bad. Really bad.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:50.000
Interviewer: How about people that you knew that worked for oil companies
or were they better off?
00:28:50.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Bagnoli: Well, even in the oil business, that slowed down a lot. At that
time. The oil wasn't sellin'. Every everything was affected. The only one
probably that, uh, didn't lay off as much was a candle.
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Interviewer: The refinery.
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:49.000
Bagnoli: Yeah, they. They were going pretty good there. But the rest. Oh,
boy, it was really bad. But we were lucky that we had the oil field going
pretty good. Then there were a lot of people working in the oil field,
although they laid off for quite a few. So they were a lot of people
working there otherwise. Boy, oh boy, Bradford would have been a cemetery.
Interviewer: Uh huh. Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:56.000
Interviewer2: Okay. I think do all the questions I can think of. How about
you? Interviewer: Yeah. I can't think of anything.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:10.000
Bagnoli: I hope I answered all the the question you wanted to know.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Interviewer2: I keep putting all our little pieces together and.
Interviewer: As Ray said, they talk to a person and things come up that you
don't find somewhere else. For instance, the meetings that you talked about
in Public Square. I know I've lived in Bradford a long time and I hadn't
heard of this. Bagnoli: Oh, yes. Interviewer: And this is very interesting.
Bagnoli: Yes.
