WEBVTT
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Sorace: Like you take, you know.
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Katonik: Same kind.
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Sorace: No, it is different isn't it? Like about this big you know, it
tapes music and songs. Different songs. From the stereo and from radio.
Katonik: They're handy. Sorace: Yeah. Mhm.
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Katonik: Are there any particular aspects of, of American culture that you
remember that were either bothersome, or that you liked when you were
growing up?
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Sorace: Like. How do you mean? Uh.
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Katonik: Oh, I don't know. Um. I don't know the way people. The way things
happen in work situations, you know, say people. If someone knows someone,
maybe they. They get better jobs or, like, certain things that are
particular--
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Sorace: I mean, uh, some days, I don't know. Each one did their work. They
had their jobs, and that's all they. They didn't worry about anybody else
or, you know, think of anything else but themselves. Everybody just got
along as best they could. That's all.
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Katonik: You don't remember anything saying, um, any, uh, situations where
where you with the government was doing bothered you or--
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Sorace: Oh, no, no.
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Katonik: Oh, I don't know, I I'm just trying to think of examples of.
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Sorace: Someday. The government wasn't like it is all corrupted today, you
know what I mean? Were days they didn't have all the service[??] corruption
that they have today. It is altogether different.
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Katonik: What is what's the role of women in the ISDA? Sorace: What do you
mean the role of women? Katonik: Um, or the ISDA is male and female,
right?
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Sorace: Well, yeah, we have some male in our but not too many. We're
mostly all women.
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Katonik: So women hold most of the leadership? Sorace: Yeah. Katonik: And
you said that the ISDA lodge here was founded by a woman?
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Sorace: Well, I-- one lodge. Yeah, but not not all lodges. Each lodge had
had a founder. But our lodge, she was the founder.
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Katonik: Do you think women tend to be more active in?
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Sorace: Oh, yeah, they're more active than men. Some men are active. Some
men are not, you know.
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Katonik: Why do you think why do you think that is?
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Sorace: Oh, I don't know. I guess they just feel as though the women can
do work better.
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Katonik: Uh, which what ethnic group do you feel is closest? You know, in
your experience with friends, whatever, what ethnic group do you think is
is closest to to Italians? Is there a group that you feel more kinship with
than others?
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Sorace: No, I don't know. I usually be, um. I have all kinds of friends. I
have Polish friends, Slavic friends. All. All friends. Italian friends. All
kinds of friends. Mhm.
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Katonik: You don't feel that there's any one group that has the same sorts
of experiences or background? Sorace: No. Katonik: Is there any ethnic
group that you feel is really different from yours?
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Sorace: No, I don't think so.
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Katonik: I don't know. Like from when you were growing up, was there any--
oh, I don't know. Let's say difficulty between.
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Sorace: When we were kids? When we were younger, when we were kids. You
know, we always think, well, used to Russian people just to, you know, want
to fight, want to argue one, this one or that. But we just wouldn't bother
with them, that's all.
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Katonik: Is is that the only one that you could think of?
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Sorace: Mm that's all.
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Katonik: Uh, what about, like, the, say, the English or Irish? Sorace: Oh,
I.
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Sorace: Get along with the Irish people, too. I always got along with the
Irish people. German, I had a German sister in law, obviously got along
with her. And just got along.
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Katonik: What about like some like, Jewish groups even, you know, like.
Sorace: Oh, yeah.
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Sorace: I used to know Jewish people, too. We got along. Yeah.
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Katonik: Mm. Hey, do you think relations have changed between ethnic
groups? Say, was it better in the past or better now? Or how do you see any
change?
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Sorace: I don't know. I think it's just about the same.
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Katonik: Do you think, can you think of any specific-- oh, I don't know
experiences that that certain groups had that you remember that were.
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Sorace: I remember going to a Jewish wedding and I thought it was the most
beautiful thing I've ever seen. You know, it was beautiful.
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Katonik: Yeah. Really different when you're used to.
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Sorace: Yeah.
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Katonik: Uh huh, yeah. Uh, let's see. Uh, does your does your membership
in the ISDA affect your your place in the community at all? Sorace: No.
Katonik: It doesn't. Does it have anything to do with-- Sorace: No.
Katonik: social standing? Has it helped your family in in any way other
than social events like it, uh, did? Was anyone educated or through it?
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Sorace: No. No.
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Katonik: Um. Were any people married by two people they met in the.
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Sorace: No, no, no.
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Katonik: So you can't think of any instance?
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Sorace: Uh, a lot of girls did meet fellows, you know, in the highest day.
Younger people, you know, got married, met, got married. But I never.
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Sorace: Heard about them. Uh.
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Katonik: Is there any influence that it had either on your business or,
you know, when you used to work or on your husband, like on your on the
places where you worked? Was there ever any, um, intervening between.
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Sorace: No, no, no, no, I, I worked by myself. I was my own boss. I didn't
have nobody to, you know, interfere with me or anything.
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Katonik: Do you think it ever hurt in any being a member of the ISDA? Was
there ever any negative aspect of it? Sorace: No. Katonik: No. Uh, what
about the class that you belong to? Like, how do you consider yourself
financially? Like what? What class do you think you belong to?
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Sorace: Well, I wouldn't say I'm poor. I wouldn't say I'm rich. Just
getting along, you know?
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Katonik: Working class, that's how.
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Sorace: Working class. Yeah.
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Katonik: Uh, it has been a member of the ISDA affected that? Like he Has
it helped you get to a better class or has it kept you down?
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Sorace: No, didn't help me with anything.
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Sorace: Yeah, just a member, that's all.
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Katonik: Uh, are there any members of the ISDA that you know that are,
like, really well off? Like, uh, upper a few. Like, really upper class
people?
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Sorace: Might be a lot of them, but I wouldn't know.
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Katonik: No, you don't. None of your really close friends are the people
in your village really close?
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Sorace: But I guess there is a lot of them, you know?
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Katonik: Yeah, there's just not none that you know?
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Sorace: Yeah, none that I know.
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Katonik: Is there any way that the ISDA affects your standing in I don't
know, in in the community, like outside of um the Italian community in, you
know, in your neighborhood or in your?
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Sorace: No, no. Katonik: Um. So what?
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Katonik: You said that social events. Like how how often are there social
functions?
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Sorace: Well, now winter is coming. Being that winter is coming, now we
will start having banquets, you know, and parties and spaghetti dinners.
Garage sales, elephant sales, different things like that now, you know,
during the winter.
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Katonik: It is summer adult sort of a--
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Sorace: Summer is we don't have no meetings in July and August, you know,
So we have to, uh, make up for lost time during the winter.
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Katonik: How often are meetings held?
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Sorace: Once a month.
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Katonik: Do you attend them regularly?
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Sorace: Yeah.
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Katonik: Are there conventions? Any national conventions? Sorace: Oh,
yeah.
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Sorace: We have a convention every two years. Katonik: Uh huh.
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Katonik: Where is that? Is it always held in Pittsburgh?
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Sorace: Well, no. Last year, two years ago, it was held in Pittsburgh.
Now, this coming year, next year it's August. I don't know where they're
going to have it. We don't know. They don't tell us until a couple of
months before.
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Katonik: Uh, so what are some what are the main influences of being a
member of the ISDA on your life?
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Sorace: Well, just being a member and being with friends that, you know,
you know, girls, we've been growing up together and being that you see one
another and get to get to talk about different things. You know, that's
all, things like that.
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Katonik: Uh. I don't know, is it? I'm trying to think of other questions,
uh, that pertain to the organization. Like you were talking about social
functions, you know, the, the banquets and things. Are there um, like how
during, during the meetings, are there elections held of officers? Like,
how does it work?
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Sorace: Well, let's see. They send us tickets. So, like say well now we'll
send you ten tickets, see. And whoever wants to go will have, will, uh,
raise their hand and say, well, I want to go see. And the tickets might be
$10. They might be $15 to they might be $10, might be $12. It all depends
on the price. See where you're going, like the holiday house or different
places like that, you know, for dinner it'll cost more. Why whoever wants
to go, go and who don't go just don't go, that's all.
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Katonik: Oh, wait. These are tickets to social events that. Yeah. Are they
donated to the lodge or.
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Sorace: Oh, no, no, no. They're sent, uh, like, say, your lodge. If you
belong to a lodge, you send us the ten tickets, say. And then when we have
an affair and we send you the 10 tickets or 10 20 tickets or 15 tickets,
you know, no matter how many tickets you want.
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Katonik: So how how are officers elected?
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Sorace: Oh, well, then we have an election. Katonik: How? How often?
Sorace: Every two years. Every year. Every year we have election. We'll
have election now in December.
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Katonik: What are the offices that that are filled?
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Sorace: Well, all the offices are filled. Your president, vice and ex
president and trustees and secretaries. Yeah.
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Katonik: Oh, I just have one. A few more questions. These are questions
that are specific to, um, Italians. The other questions are questions that
we ask everyone. But these are sort of things that have happened in the
history of Pittsburgh that, you know, maybe you'll have memory of some
someone did. They came up with these questions. Um, when you were growing
up, what kinds of jobs did most Italians have that? Were there any certain
rends?
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Sorace: Well, the ones I remember were the mills. Yeah. National Tube.
That was the mills then, that was the name of the mills, you know. it
wasn't Janell's. It was National Tube.
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Katonik: That was the name of Janell's?
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Sorace: Yeah, well, no. It was a mill then. It was a National Tubes and
then they did away with it. And Janell's come over. Janell's took it over
because that's where my brother used to work. My brothers used to work at
Jan-- at the National Tube.
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Katonik: Um. Do you remember Sacco and Vanzetti?
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Sorace: No, I don't. I don't know anything about Sacco and Vanzetti. Only.
Only what I've seen on T.V.. One time when they showed, I think. Yeah.
Yeah, that was an Italian organization or whatever it was. I don't know.
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Katonik: Do you remember Justice Musmanno?
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Sorace: Oh, yeah. I knew him.
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Katonik: Oh, you did?
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Sorace: Oh, yeah. Mm.
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Katonik: Uh, do you remember? Um, any relationship between him and Sacco
and Vanzetti?
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Sorace: No, I don't. No, I don't. One time I read about him is when he
defended them, I think, wasn't it? I think he defended their case or
something. Yeah, that's a reading about it, that's all.
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Katonik: He never talked about it?
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Sorace: No. Uh. Katonik: Well, what.
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Katonik: Kind of relationship did you have to him? Did you know him very
well?
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Sorace: No, I know him just to, you know, say hello and how are you and
this and that. That's all. Uh.
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Katonik: This is a strange question, but I'll ask it because it's here. Do
you remember Justice Musmanno, um, in relation to his opinions about Leif
Erickson and Christopher Columbus? Do you remember that?
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Sorace: Well, I don't remember that.
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Katonik: Uh, well, that that's the whole thing about who discovered
America.
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Katonik: And he supposedly had some.
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Katonik: Uh, very strong opinions.
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Sorace: Yeah.
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Katonik: Um, did did he ever come up with any ideas that either he talked
about with people or or that you read about, about being Italian? Like, do
you do you remember any. Do you have any impressions of how he felt?
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Sorace: No, no, no. He was a very nice man. Talked nice about everybody, I
think, you know.
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Katonik: What what are how do you feel about the image of Italian women in
the United States? You know, like the the role or the the image that the
Italian women have, you know, in this country? Do do you do you see an
image that.
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Sorace: Of, um, I mean.
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Katonik: Like the the media, you know, like the way Italian women are
portrayed, say, on if you watch television commercials, commercials or TV
shows like is there, you know, like a certain stereotype or something that
you've?
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Sorace: Oh I don't know. Some of them, some of them are, um, uh, they're
trying to, uh, modernize ourselves more now than, than they used to. Mhm.
You know, they're modern now. They're not, they're not like, uh, like, like
they used to be in the olden days. Mhm. Is that now. Now they dress up and
they're, they wear bikinis and they smoke and they drink and they uh, fix
their hair up and they wear their clothes short. You know, the dress is
short and they're just more up to date than what they used to be.
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Katonik: Are you saying that that's the way it really is or that's the way
that it's sort of portrayed in the image.
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Sorace: That's the way it is now? Now, now.
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Katonik: But do you ever notice any sorts of stereotypes or like a
typical, like, any sort of typical ways that Italian women are protorayed?
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Sorace: No. Uh.
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Katonik: Yeah. Um. Do you remember Saint Peter's church?
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Sorace: Oh, my goodness yeah. We lived down that way. I think it was
church. When they tore it down it was really a crime. Yeah. Tore that
church down. It was beautiful. Yeah, a beautiful church.
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Katonik: Did you used to go there often?
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Sorace: Yeah. Oh, yeah. My children went to school there. They graduated
from Saint Peter's.
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Katonik: Mm. So was there a big, um, community stir about that, tearing it
down?
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Sorace: Well, they didn't like it. The people didn't like it, you know?
Yeah, people didn't like it. That's why they moved to Beechview and
Brookline and places like that. Katonik: Um. What do you think of the.
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Katonik: What do you think of the American invasion of Italy in 1943?
Sorace: Oh, God.
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Sorace: I don't remember anything about that [laughs]. No.
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Katonik: You don't remember anything? Any reaction of the ISDA or
anything?
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Sorace: No. No. ISDA never bothered about anything about Italy. No, no.
Uh.
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Katonik: Completely severed? Was it just an American organization, never
any sort of ties with them? Sorace: No.
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Sorace: Uh, it's more of an American organization.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000
Katonik: Um.
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Katonik: What what do you feel, what do you feel most Americans think of
Italian people?
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.000
Sorace: I don't know. Sometimes I wonder. What do you think of the Italian
people?
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Sorace: You know, I don't.
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:38.000
Sorace: Know. Some might think, well, Italian people are okay and some
might think that that they're not. Yeah, I don't know.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Katonik: Yeah. You never had any experience--
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:41.000
Sorace: I never had no experience--
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Katonik: To make you think one way or the other? What about the way you
see them portray Italians portrayed in movies or television or anything?
00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:52.000
Sorace: Well, I mean, it doesn't bother me, you know? I mean, I don't
care.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:20:00.000
Katonik: What about, um. I don't know, like, all all these films coming
out about the Mafia and stuff.
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:36.000
Sorace: Yeah the Mafia and this and that. Yeah, that's that's been, what,
way back, years back. It's just what you read about, you know, in the
movies that they have about them, that's all. And yet the Mafia is supposed
to be Italian people, and most of them aren't Italian at all. See, they're
either Irish or German or something else. Say they're not Italians. That's
it.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.000
Katonik: But people still get.
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:53.000
Sorace: Yeah, but people, you know, still think that well, they're
Italians, you know. But it isn't true. They're not all Italians. Yeah, it
might be 1 or 2 of them, but I wouldn't say it was all of them.
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:59.000
Katonik: Does it? Does that kind of thing ever disturb you? Sorace: No.
Katonik: Is there ever any talk of that among your friends on the sort of
image like that?
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:08.000
Sorace: No, nobody ever bothers about talking about anything like that
anymore.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.000
Katonik: Um. Do you.
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:16.000
Katonik: Remember? Do you remember any schools in Pittsburgh that taught
the Italian language?
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.000
Sorace: No.
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:25.000
Sorace: There wasn't any. They're just starting teaching Italian now.
Katonik: Yeah. Mhm. Why?
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.000
Katonik: Why is that, do you think?
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:39.000
Sorace: I don't know. I guess they want them to learn the Italian
language, you know. But, uh, years ago they. They didn't know how to talk
Italian. Now they're, they're having Italian schools.
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:47.000
Katonik: And do you think that they expected people to carry it on,
families to teach, teach it or what?
00:21:47.000 --> 00:22:03.000
Sorace: Well, they have a they have a teacher that comes and teaches
anybody that wants to go. You know, they have to enroll. And, uh, in the
school.
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:10.000
Katonik: Uh, what do you. This is the last question. What. What do you
think of communism in Italy? Do you have any strong feelings about?
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:31.000
Sorace: I don't know. I mean, Italy to me means nothing. You know, and I,
I don't think, I don't think those people like it. But what can they do?
You know, they probably have to take it and like it. But I know I wouldn't
like it if I was out there.
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:36.000
Katonik: Would you ever get any sorts of impressions from your your
husband's relatives?
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:48.000
Sorace: No. They never say anything about it. That's probably in Rome, in
the big towns, like, you know. It's not in those little towns.
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:58.000
Sorace: Probably in the big towns.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.000
Katonik: Ok well.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.000
Katonik: I'm pretty sure that's all I have here.
00:23:04.000 --> 00:24:04.000
Katonik: Let me just.
