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Odessa Murdock Diggs: When you were growing up.
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Ethel Murdock: How do you mean that?
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Diggs: About color consciousness. Color. I don't know--I don't know what
they taught you. Murdock: White and Colored. Like I say, all my teachers
were White. Our teachers were. Three of the girls, we all went to school.
For girls and all of our teachers were-- Diggs: This is Spellman now you're
talking about. Murdock: No, this was in grammar school. Diggs: Okay.
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Murdock: Montgomery Industrial School in Montgomery, and I went from there
to Spelman Seminary, [sound of whistling kettle] in Atlanta, Georgia.
Diggs: And all the teachers were White in those schools?
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Murdock: Not all. There were two or three Colored, but they were under the
same Rosenwald business--this college. So we didn't--I didn't get--of
course our church, that was all Colored. They--they stressed that a lot. We
didn't--just couldn't go along with it, I guess.
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Diggs: Uh, do you remember the 1919 steel strike? That would be just
before you came to Homestead? Murdock: No, I didn't know about that. Yeah,
that was a year before we came.
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Diggs: Do you remember what kind of jobs your family and friends had at
that time? Murdock: In the South? Before I came to Homestead? Diggs: Around
1919. Murdock: Oh, yeah, my friends--most are more professional. Teachers
or carriers. Diggs: Mail carriers? Murdock: Yeah. That was. Yeah.
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Diggs: Do you remember anything about the racial disturbances in the
1940s?
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Murdock: 40s. Where were we, uh.
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Murdock: From 1935 until 19-- Diggs: That would be when you were in
Raccoon Township. Murdock: Yeah. I don't think that was so prevalent
there.
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Diggs: How do you feel about the younger Black movement since Martin
Luther King?
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Murdock: Well. I don't. I just can't...go along with that...separation.
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Diggs: I don't--you probably don't remember much about the Hill District
in Pittsburgh? Murdock: No. Well, we had our meetings in the Hill District.
Diggs: There were sections called Arthursville, Minersville, and Haiti. Did
you ever hear? Murdock: No, didn't know about that.
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Diggs: And so your life was--was it ever changed by any changes in--was it
affected by any changes in the Hill Distict? Murdock: No. Diggs: This is
when--perhaps when you were in Homestead.
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Diggs: What do you think is the most significant event or occasion in the
history of the Colored people in...let's say New Brighton or Pittsburgh or
just the whole area.
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Murdock: Not being associated with any of the clubs or any of that, I
really wouldn't know.
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Diggs: Then would you know who is outstanding in the Colored community?
Murdock: Yeah, I knew about them. Diggs: Who? Murdock: In the churches.
Diggs: Who? Do you-- name anyone that you knew that was supposed to be
outstanding. And why they were outstanding. Murdock: In Homestead there was
the Posies. They were rich, I think. But, I was in the church there. I
didn't. The Depression came on about that time. I didn't--I had bigger
problems. [laughter] Diggs: Survival.
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Diggs: How did you feel about Amos and Andy?
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Murdock: Yeah, I used to listen to them.
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Murdock: I didn't--I wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses at the time when I
used to listen to them. And then later when I realized. I didn't appreciate
it like I had. It seemed that it was kind of belittling somebody, and
that's not in harmony with anything pertaining to my religious belief.
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Diggs: What changes have you noticed about Negroes on televisions shows
and commercials now?
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Murdock: Some of them I like. Some of the changes I really like. I think
they're nice. In fact, most of them there has been cleaned up quite a bit.
Diggs: [laughs] What do you mean, cleaned up?
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Murdock: Well. It seems to give the younger people an opportunity to aim
for something more than what they used to call Uncle Toms. I remember that
much about the worldly ways.
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Diggs: In the 1920s, membership in the Ku Klux Klan was over 6 million.
Uh, do you remember anything about the Klu Klux Klan? Murdock: Only reading
about it and not at close contact. Diggs: You never saw anything that they
had done? Murdock: Uh uh. I saw--I saw [unintelligible]. Diggs: And that
was in the 20s. Murdock: Ku Klux Klan. Diggs: They were before the 20s. But
at that time the membership was over 6 million, so they had to grow before
the 20s. So they probably did activities before that. So you don't you're
not familiar with any of their activities, not when you were in the South
and not when you were in the North or anywhere? Murdock: Except by reading.
Diggs: What did you hear about? Would you read about? Murdock: Oh,
lynchings and all that stuff. Diggs: You never saw a lynching? Murdock: Oh,
no.
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Diggs: What do you think about Blacks or Negroes participating in the
Bicentennial? Murdock: We have no problem with that. Diggs: We again, is
Jehovah's-- Murdock: Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes.
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Diggs: Do you have any relatives or friends in Canada? Murdock: Not that I
know of personally. Diggs: Have you ever heard any of your relatives or
your older friends speak of the Underground Railroad? Murdock: Yes, but I
don't know much about it. I've heard of it since I lived here in the [??].
Diggs: What have you heard since you lived in New Brighton? Murdock: About
this Underground Railroad. But just--just vaguely. I never heard any
details about it. Diggs: Did you ever hear Speak of Moses or Harriet Tubman
was a codename they call Harriet Tubman, Moses. Murdock: Yeah. I read about
that in history. Diggs: You read about it in history? Murdock: Yeah. Diggs:
But you never heard about it any other place. Murdock: I don't-- Diggs:
No--no family or your grandparents, you know.
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Diggs: Do you remember people who were members of the Oddfellows? Murdock:
I heard of them when I was younger, but I never really knew about them.
Diggs: What about the Knights of Tabor? The Knights of Liberty? And the
Daughters of Tabor. What about the Knights of Pythian? Murdock: I've heard
that term, but I don't. The Masonic Lodge and all those are the ones that I
heard most of because my father was one. He used to entertain them at the
home. And have picnics. So I knew about them. In fact, my mother was--well,
the woman's organization then. Diggs: What was it called? Murdock: The,
um--- Diggs: Eastern Star. Murdock: Eastern Star. She was in the Eastern
Star.
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Diggs: Do you feel that your father, being a mason, was helpful in him
having his children in private schools and having him be a postman, a mail
carrier, rather? Do you think that his belonging to the Masonic-- Murdock:
No, the thing that helped him, he was an early student of Booker
Washington's school. That's the thing that enabled him to...be in
government service to make the money that was necessary to get you in
private school. That was the only--
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Diggs: So he went to Booker T. Washington's school? Murdock: Yeah. He went
to Booker T's---he was one of the earliest students. Diggs: Do you know any
other people that were students at the time he was there?
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Murdock: There was a man that, uh--peanut butter man. Diggs: Carver?
Murdock: Carver, yeah.
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Murdock: He was--he has visited in our home when I was younger. Diggs: He
was a friend of your father's? Murdock: Uh huh.
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Diggs: Do you remember much about him? Murdock: Nah. I just remember
meeting him when I was a kid.
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Diggs: Did you know any Negroes who worked on the riverboats or steamers?
Murdock: No. Didn't. Diggs: They understand that Posey--Cum Posey was a
riverboat captain-- Murdock: He was in Homestead I was--after--[????].
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Diggs: Which families? Colored families around here are the longest--I
have two more questions. Which are the Colored families lived around here
the longest in New Brighton? The oldest Colored families around here.
Murdock: I really don't know them too well. The Websters were whoever
they-- Diggs: And were there any Colored businesses around here? New
Brighton. Murdock: Yeah. Since I've been here, there have been some.
Cleaner--and cleaners.
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Diggs: Okay. Thank you, Mrs. Murdock. [gasp sound]
