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Elaine Kelsky: Did you ever have any problems because of your religion in
the United States?
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Esther Newman: No.
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Kelsky: And the, uh, in Hungary, the town you came from, Bar Palanca [??].
Is that still there? Is that, uh, where it is? Can you tell me about that?
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Newman: It's still there, but it's under, uh, Russian domination now.
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Kelsky: Have you ever been back to.
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Newman: No. No. I never had the desire to go back.
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Kelsky: Do you belong to any organizations?
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Newman: I belong to Hadassah. Jewish Home and Hospital for the Aged and
the Pollaczek Sisterhood.
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Kelsky: Were you ever an officer in the organization?
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Newman: Why, we lived in Hazelwood. I was president of the Sisterhood.
Almost all the years that I lived there. And so was my husband. President
of the congregation.
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Kelsky: You were very active in the congregation?
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Newman: Very active. Yes. Yes.
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Kelsky: Is that still in existence?
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Newman: No. When he died, I moved out of there. We sold a building. There
was no one left there to run anything.
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Kelsky: Did you ever belong to a, um, political organization--or a-
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Newman: No.
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Kelsky: Do you still have relatives living in the old country?
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Newman: There are some scattered, but I don't hear from them. I don't know
much about them.
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Kelsky: Do you have relatives in Israel?
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Newman: Yes.
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Kelsky: Did, did your son look them up when he was there?
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Newman: Yes, he did. Yes, he did.
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Kelsky: Were they ever in America?
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Newman: No.
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Kelsky: And do you have any relatives living in Pittsburgh that lived with
you in Hungary?
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Newman: No, not relatives, but neighbors.
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Kelsky: That they still live in Pittsburgh?
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Newman: Some of them, yes.
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Kelsky: Do you ever write to your relatives at all? And-
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Newman: In Israel, I do, yes.
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Kelsky: What about the lives of women in America compared to when you were
a girl in Hungary? Can you tell me about-
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Newman: Very much different, very different.
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Kelsky: How were they different?
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Newman: In my time, the women in Hungary, especially in a small town, had
only their home. And to go to the synagogue for services whenever, you
know, on Saturdays and holidays. Other than that, there wasn't much social
life. I used to get together visiting, but other than that, it's nothing.
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Kelsky: What about the political life? I guess they, did they have any say
in politics?
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Newman: Well, not the women. The men I remember used to vote for whatever
office anybody ran for. But, you know, even under the king, there was no
presidential election there.
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Kelsky: What did they vote for?
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Newman: I'll bet, I don't know.
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Kelsky: Local?
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Newman: Yeah. Local politicians, whatever they were running for. I just
remember that they were voting for somebody.
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Kelsky: Well when you first came to America, was life different for a
woman then, than it is now?
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Newman: Yes. Yes. Of course. And I came to American, but I found in New
York was almost the same as--. But I left in Europe, except that the women
worked much harder here. They really did, because they wanted to get ahead,
give their children an education. And like I said, they kept a lot of
roomers and borders and worked hard. But all that has changed today. Thank
goodness it's a--much easier life and better life.
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Kelsky: Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think would be
important?
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Newman: Well, after I got married, I--worked in the business. I was with
my husband all the time and helped in the store. I was taking care of the
house, but I always had help. I had the children. I had help.
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Kelsky: Well in Hungary, did the women help in the business or did they
just-?
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Newman: Yes, those that had little neighborhood stores. It was always, you
know, Papa and mama store. Yes.
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Kelsky: And what about medical care in Hungary, did you have any, were
there doctors or were there-?
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Newman: There were no doctors in the town where we lived. If we needed a
doctor, we either stood outside watching that a doctor might pass by to see
somebody or if it was urgent, somebody had to go into town and bring the
doctor out.
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Kelsky: And how far was the town?
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Newman: It was like a half an hour drive or a three quarters of an hour or
something like that.
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Kelsky: And did they have any hospitals over there?
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Newman: Also, you had to take the patient to the city hospital. There were
no local hospitals.
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Kelsky: And when you first came to Pittsburgh, what were the conditions
like here as far as medical care?
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Newman: Oh, we had doctors. Hazlewood, there were 5 or 6 doctors. We had
no trouble with doctors as far as that was concerned. So we became very
friendly with the doctors and they were like, really family friends. My
first three children were born at home in the house, with my family doctor
attending. I was very happy.
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Kelsky: Do you remember the flu epidemic?
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Newman: I can write a book about that myself. About the flu epidemic.
That's why I was one of the first ones now, to get the flu shot. I got the
flu. I got double pneumonia. I was in emergency hospital for three months.
And-and incidentally, I was pregnant and lost the baby while I was in the
hospital. When I was ready to come home, my doctor came in and he said,
Mrs. Newman, I have to tell you something. I said, I know what you want to
tell me. My baby died. He didn't want to tell me at first. I said, I wish
you would have told me right away because I said I figured if I'll die,
what's the use for the baby to live on? And he said, Well, you were too
sick to tell you anything. The one thing I want to tell you that we
expected to carry you out through the back door. This was a miracle, that
I'm alive today, to tell the story.
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Kelsky: Did they have epidemics like that in Europe? Can you remember any
of those?
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Newman: Not as bad. I never remember such a bad epidemic. Except that when
there was an outbreak of measles or scarlet fever, something like that,
child disease, they ordered everybody to whitewash everything. All the
trees, whitewash the trees, and whitewash the wells. Everybody had a well
in the backyard. To whitewash the bricks, and that was the only thing that
they could do, I guess, at that time to prevent the spreading of it. But I
never remembered a real epidemic where everybody got sick. Like the flu.
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Kelsky: Where there many members in your family that were sick, at that
time?
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Newman: No, no. Each child had the measles and--Scarlet fever off and on.
You know, it was a baby every two years, there was another baby. So there
was always some child, but nothing very bad, really.
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Kelsky: Well, in the epidemic, the flu epidemic--Um, were there many
people from your home, from your household, that were sick or-?
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Newman: My husband was sick first for 2 or 3 days, and he got better and I
got sick. I had a three year old and a one and a half year old child.
Neither one of them got the flu. My brother in law lived with us and my
father came from New York to be with them while I was in the hospital. They
never got sick.
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Kelsky: And the way you were brought up in Hungary, did it conflict with
the customs in America when you came here? Did you have any problems in
that area?
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Newman: I don't think so. I adapted myself pretty well and accepted all
the ways here, and I don't think so.
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Kelsky: Can you tell me some more about the--New York when you first
arrived? About the east, The East side or Brooklyn and your working
conditions? Tell me about the living conditions and the, uh-
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Newman: Well, the living conditions were crowded, and, uh, I went to work
every day and paid so much a week for board. I used to wash my own clothes
in the evening. And, uh, on Sundays I used to go visit my father, who lived
in New York, or he came to visit me. And then I decided I wanted to go to
New York. And I went to New York and found a very nice boarding place where
I could board with a nice family. They had a couple of other girls boarding
with them and, uh, I went on like that. But I wasn't there too long really
to, uh, get to really like it or dislike it. I was very homesick the first
year, so I really can't tell how I would have gotten to like New York. I
said if I would have been in New York for so many more years, maybe I would
have became a typical New Yorker. You know, maybe I would have become a
typical New Yorker that I, uh, some of the New Yorkers think there is no
place else but New York. There's no such place. And I think differently,
because I wouldn't live in New York today for no money.
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Kelsky: Did your father live in a different place than you in New York?
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Newman: Yes, yes. He lived at a different family. And they had mostly,
they had men boarders there. And, uh, but he didn't eat there. He just
slept there. And there were some restaurants who catered to all these
people, and that was like a second home to them. When they came into that
restaurant, the people, was the husband and wife management there, and they
knew already each man what his favorite dish was and what he liked, what he
didn't like. And it was really like home. And they liked it very much, all
on the east side. And even for Saturday, they had everything prepared on
Friday and they would go in there Saturday and eat their Saturday meal. And
on Saturday they didn't pay because they were religious. They wouldn't
handle the money. They didn't pay on Saturday, and they settled up the next
day.
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Kelsky: And they didn't work on Saturdays at all?
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Newman: Uh, some of them didn't work on Saturdays, some did. Others didn't
want to so they could work on Sunday.
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Kelsky: And did they usually work, how many days a week did they usually
work?
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Newman: Six days a week in those days. Yes.
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Kelsky: And how did your father prepare to bring your, your mother and
your, the rest of your family over? Did he send money over there or-
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Newman: Yes. Well, we all did. We sent money over. It took a good bit of
money to bring them all out, but I wanted them all to come to Pittsburgh.
So they came to Pittsburgh first and they stayed with us for three months.
My father was more used to New York already and he liked it better than New
York, and he thought there would be more opportunities for the children,
which was true. So he went back to New York and established himself. He
opened a laundry agency and got an apartment, and they all went back to New
York. Except one brother and sister who stayed with me for four years. The
sister got married soon after. She married my husband's brother. And the
brother stayed for four years. Then he got married and he moved to Chicago.
Married a Chicago girl.
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Kelsky: Were you the oldest of the children?
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Newman: Yes, I was the oldest.
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Kelsky: Is that why you came over with your father?
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Newman: With my father. Yes. Yes.
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Kelsky: And when you came to Pittsburgh, did you live on, in the, on the
Hill at all?
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Newman: No, no. I always lived in Hazelwood. Until my husband passed away.
Then I moved to Squirrel Hill.
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Kelsky: Do you remember anything about the Hill District in Pittsburgh?
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Newman: No, only we-we heard about the, a lot of people that lived on the
Hill. But I was. I never knew too many. And I never knew too much about it.
Now I hear more about it than I did then. I didn't have the opportunity
then to mingle so much with the people from there.
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Kelsky: Would you say that that was on the order of the East Side in New
York?
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Newman: Yes. Yes. From what I hear, that's what it was like, except that
it was already more modern. And they were, they got to town very easily.
There was good transportation and all that. So it was better. But it was
the order of the east side, I would say.
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Kelsky: Do you enjoy going to concerts or symphonies?
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Newman: I don't have too much opportunities for that. I enjoy them, but I
don't go too much. I, I like movies and stage plays and I play cards and I
do a lot of sewing.
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Kelsky: You still sew.
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Newman: I, uh. Well, since I was sick, I don't do so much, but I
always--sew for my, all my children and myself.
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Kelsky: When you first came to Pittsburgh, did you have electric,
electricity or-
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Newman: No. Gas lights until 1920. I came to Pittsburgh in 1914. In 1920
we bought our own home and then we wired it for electricity. Until then, we
used the gas lamps and gas lights all over the house.
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Kelsky: What about the plumbing? Did you have indoor plumbing?
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Newman: Yes, yes. Indoor plumbing. Yes.
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Kelsky: But there were places with outdoor-?
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Newman: Yes, there were, closer to our store. There were outdoor
outhouses, like. But then I remember when that was outlawed and they put in
indoor plumbing.
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Kelsky: Do you remember the first movie Houses in Pittsburgh?
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Newman: Yes, I remember. Of course, we had two movies in Hazelwood, but
then I used to take my children to the--Oh--Uh, there was, the--The Warner
was--I forgot already what it was called. I used to take them so often into
the Elven[??]. And yes, I used to take them down to the movies.
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Kelsky: Do you remember the Yiddish theater?
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Newman: Yes, yes. In New York. That first year that I was there, I went to
the Yiddish theater a lot. And every time they came to Pittsburgh now, once
a year, each troupe from New York would come to Pittsburgh, like for two
nights. My husband and I always attended those. Yes. And we also attended
the English stage plays. Yes.
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Kelsky: Where did they hold the Yiddish theater? Where was that located?
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Newman: Uh, well, there was a Pitt Theater, I think, on Penn Avenue. And
incidentally, the Warner was the Harris. There was one other theater, too.
The Nixon. They used to come to the Nixon, too. And the bigger.
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Kelsky: Lyceum theater?
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Newman: Yes. Yes, that's right. But a lot of things already--
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Kelsky: Well, you say you lived in Hazelwood. Were the mill's there at
that time?
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Newman: Yeah, there, you know, railroad. That was. I mean, of course there
was the Jones and Laughlin's had a lot of people working from Hazelwood
even to this day. And the Brickyard, the--God--I forgot how, the Brickyard
under the Glenwood Bridge, there was a brickyard. A lot of Hazlewood people
worked there and that's where we do our customers from. Our store was
incidentally near the __ [??] railroad shops at the station, and most of
our customers were piano men.
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Kelsky: Well did you, was the meal there already, when you moved to
Hazlewood?
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Newman: Yes. Oh, yes. My husband opened a business. Oh, in the early
1900s, maybe 19, 19, 4 or 5. And all his life he had that's the only
business he had. And it was good. It was a good business, and I liked it. I
always helped in the business. I was right there with him.
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Kelsky: Do you remember the steel strikes? Steel mill strikes?
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Newman: Eh, not those bloody strikes that they had in the late 1800s, No.
But I remember the strikes that took place since then. I remember about the
Coal and Iron police and all that just from reading about them. And
actually they were in the local coal mines, so I remembered a lot about
them, what was going on.
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Kelsky: The pollution rate is very high in Hazelwood, what was it like
then?
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Newman: I'll tell you something, then we had pollution like you never saw
because when there'd be an engine emitted the smoke, all of Hazelwood
became dark. But our theory was that, when there was no smoke, there was no
business and no work. So the smoke didn't bother us too much. We didn't
realise that maybe it would hurt us, you know, physically. And I know that
we had to change the curtains every two weeks. It was just awful. There was
soot all over it. But somehow we just complained about the dirt and that's
all.
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Kelsky: You didn't have any problems, like breathing or-?
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Newman: No, We were young and healthy, and he just complained about the
dirt and closed up ___[??] and all that.
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Kelsky: And when you, say you went from Hazelwood into downtown
Pittsburgh-
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Newman: Yes.
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Kelsky: How would you get there?
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Newman: By streetcar. Kelsky: By streetcar.
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Newman: 15 minutes. We were in town.
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Kelsky: Did the train go, too?
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Newman: Yes. Yes. A lot of people used the train. And the train, too, used
to go on the piano train and the station was right near our store. And you
could take the train, and then walk to wherever, It wasn't too far.
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Kelsky: Well, I imagine then that the transportation then wasn't much
different than it is now.
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Newman: No.
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Kelsky: As far as public transportation-?
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Newman: No, we had good transportation. We knew how often they would run.
Of course, the population wasn't as big. You know, there are more, people
need transportation now. Of course, there weren't that many cars either.
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Kelsky: No, but as far as public transportation, you still could get on
the streetcar and get down-?
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Newman: Yes, we got a transfer, in fact, we used to have to go out, buy
our kosher products, so we used to go once a week, twice a week on Sundays
and Thursdays. And Sundays my husband used to go and buy for the store and
also bought meat for the week because we had nothing kosher in Hazelwood.
So we would have to take the streetcar to Brady Street and there we would
get a transfer and walk up those steps to the Brady Street Bridge, like,
and take the streetcar to Logan Street. And then when Squirrel Hill opened
up, then we used to, by that time we had a car. So we came up to Squirrel
Hill to shop with the car.
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Kelsky: When you went to Logan Street, did that remind you of the East
Side in New York? Well, how?
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Newman: I'll tell you how. When I walk across Murray Avenue now, I says,
this is just like Logan Street. And Logan Street is just like the East
side.
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Kelsky: Push carts?
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Newman: Well, no, we don't have push carts here like we did in Lowell.
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Kelsky: Not now. But I mean, years ago.
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Newman: No, I didn't see any push carts in Pittsburgh. No. Except it upset
me when I used to go to Logan Street that, it was like that. And I'm very
critical of Murray Avenue. It's a couple of blocks at least.
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Kelsky: When you went shopping and bought your meat. How long could you
keep it?
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Newman: Well, we had a refrigerator.
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Kelsky: You mean, the-
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Newman: Ice box, yes. And watched for the ice man all the time, hoping
that he'd come in time before we ran out of it. We bought, like, on Sunday,
that had to last us till Thursday and then Thursday till Sunday. So I never
had any spoilage. We were real careful with that because.
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Kelsky: Meant you always had to do your shopping twice a week?
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Newman: Yes. Yes. Because we couldn't keep things much longer.
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Kelsky: How do prices compare now and then?
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Newman: Well, there was a little bit of inflation between 1920 and 30, but
things were good then and people didn't realize it so much. But the
inflation wasn't like it is now. Except I always say that before the 1920s,
prices were low. We say now they were low, but also money was low, you
know, So everything is competitive. Now, it's going a little bit out of
line because I'm sure a lot of people don't make so much more money, the
way prices are skyrocketing. So it's pretty hard now. But I say when things
were cheap and if something was only a dollar, a dollar was a lot of
money.
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Kelsky: You remember what the transportation cost was to go into town?
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Newman: Of course, it was a nickel. Then it was like three for a quarter.
We would buy three tokens for a quarter and so on.
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Kelsky: And how long would it take you to get into town?
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Newman: About 15 minutes from here. That's all. Much less than from
Squirrel Hill. You went on the Second Avenue line.
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Kelsky: And that's where the parkway is now. Where the-
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Newman: Well, Second Avenue still Second Avenue. But somehow it merges the
parkway, runs into Second Avenue, then downtown from Oakland. You know. And
we used to go to Kennywood Park. That was our recreation with the children.
On Sundays we used to go to Kennywood Park and the Kennywood School picnic.
And then later on, other swimming pools opened up, like in Clairton, South
Park, the Rainbow Gardens. And that was our Sun-. They were our Sunday
outings.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:15.000
Kelsky: And was there a Schenley Park here, that, at that time?
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:22.000
Newman: Yes, yes. We used to come to Schenley Park, but just to sit
around, you know, there was no activity in Schenley Park of any kind.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.000
Kelsky: And what about Luna Park?
00:26:26.000 --> 00:27:26.000
Newman: No, no.
