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Strasser: Okay. Ottenheimer: And, uh.
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Ottenheimer: One day when he came to the store, there was a stormtrooper
standing in full uniform right in front of the door. And this was part of
the boycott movement. There was a stormtrooper stationed.
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Ottenheimer: In front of every Jewish store in town to warn people that
they're not supposed to buy from Jewish merchants. So when my.
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Ottenheimer: Father saw this, he turned around.
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Ottenheimer: Went back home and got out his old war medals and went back
to the store. He pinned the war medals on his jacket and he stood in front
of the store next to the stormtrooper.
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Ottenheimer: And during the next few hours.
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Ottenheimer: A number of people came up to the store. And really giving
the stormtrooper hell. And doing this and.
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Ottenheimer: Talking about the My Father's War record, which was rather.
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Ottenheimer: Substantial. He was active in the First World War for four
years and was seriously wounded. And quite a few of the people in town knew
about this. In fact, a lot of them were in the same unit for years. And so
they well, after.
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Ottenheimer: A while the stormtrooper.
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Ottenheimer: Became very uneasy and he finally left.
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Ottenheimer: I think a lot of people came.
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Ottenheimer: Into the store and made it a point to just buy a tie or a
handkerchief or something. So that did not agree with official policy.
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Ottenheimer: This was one of the few cases where there.
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Ottenheimer: Was open support of our point of view.
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Ottenheimer: But again.
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Ottenheimer: I think that was rather unusual in Germany and Constance was
a little more conservative as far as swallowing the Nazi line than most
other times.
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Strasser: Do you know if the Gentiles were mostly Protestant, Catholic or
what sort of Protestants?
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Ottenheimer: Oh, I would say, well, I'm not real sure, but I think
probably.
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Ottenheimer: There were about even about 50-50. Many Protestants, mostly
Lutheran.
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Strasser: Was it strange for your father to have to-- Were the were the
Jews nationalistic in the First World War? They were happy to fight for
Germany, their mother country?
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Ottenheimer: They were as nationalistic.
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Ottenheimer: As any of the other Germans.
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Ottenheimer: Even though there was anti-Semitism. Those days, Jews were
Germans and they just the Jewish just their religion. It wasn't a
nationality, but the Germans.
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Ottenheimer: And they happen to be of the Jewish religion rather than
Lutheran and Catholic.
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Ottenheimer: And as far as I can tell, there were just as patriotic. Just
as anxious to or unanxious.
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Ottenheimer: To take part in the First World War as the rest of the
population.
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Strasser: And was there much discussion at home about, uh, Hitler's rise
in popularity was discussed around you much?
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Ottenheimer: Yes, very much so. And it was constant concern. We, so all
those things are discussing what was going on and who was involved and who
said what and so forth.
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Ottenheimer: Constant atmosphere of fear.
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Strasser: And at the synagogue.? How did the rabbi deal with it?
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Ottenheimer: Well. There were never any sermons concerning the political
situation because there was always a suspicion that.
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Ottenheimer: Nazis were planting someone in congregation and they were
just looking for an excuse to. Do something drastic.
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Ottenheimer: So the rabbi was extremely careful never to make any
statement.
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Ottenheimer: Public statements. Concerning the Nazi regime or its
activities.
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Ottenheimer: And there were definitely.
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Ottenheimer: Strangers in the congregation. And occasionally I'm pretty
sure that the Nazis had in some way.
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Strasser: How strange.
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Ottenheimer: Well, of course. Now, in earlier years, it was not at all
unusual for Gentiles to come into the Jewish Service just because they were
curious.
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Ottenheimer: And just as we went to church services occasionally, just to
see what that was all. But after Hitler came to power. I suspect that
anyone came visiting the Jewish Service.
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Strasser: Did most of the Jewish community in Constance get out.
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Ottenheimer: I would think so, yes. Not all by any means, but the greater
part of the population did get out. It was relatively easy for us to get
into Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: We could have gone into Switzerland any time we wanted to.
Okay after the time that[??]
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Ottenheimer: But if you go to Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: The way the situation was at that time, Switzerland had a law
that any refugee coming into Switzerland was.
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Ottenheimer: Was not allowed to work, were not allowed to have a job.
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Ottenheimer: He would have to be supported by organizations from other
countries or by.
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Ottenheimer: Relatives from other countries or would just be passing
through there on the way to somewhere else.
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Ottenheimer: And to some extent this, of course, was justified.
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Ottenheimer: It's a very small country. I think about 2.5 million
population in the whole country, If you bring.
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Ottenheimer: A few thousand refugees and anytime anything went wrong
anywhere in Europe.
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Ottenheimer: Refugees would stream into Switzerland. So they just they
wouldn't have enough jobs for their own people, let alone outsiders.
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Ottenheimer: So it was not a good idea to go to Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: In terms of future life and settling down.
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Ottenheimer: In an emergency and.
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Ottenheimer: Your life is at stake. Of course, go in. You can worry about
the future afterwards.
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Ottenheimer: 1938. March 1938, when Austria was taken over by Germany.
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Ottenheimer: There was a.
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Ottenheimer: Very drastic.
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Ottenheimer: Action against the Jews of Austria by not only by the German
government, but also by the native population with.
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Ottenheimer: Horrible atrocities and thousands of Jews.
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Ottenheimer: Had to flee from Austria to try to save their lives.
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Ottenheimer: And quite a few came through Constance looking for a way to
get into Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: Then Switzerland to other countries. And we had sort of.
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Ottenheimer: An underground railroad.
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Ottenheimer: Station going. People will be sent. I think the grand rabbi
of Vienna had.
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Ottenheimer: Our address and he.
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Ottenheimer: Would tell people to come to our house and then we would keep
them overnight and then next morning tell them where they could cross over
into Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: Near the border.
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Strasser: Is crossed by the main road, walked across? Ottenheimer: No.
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Ottenheimer: It was a little stream and some gardens and farmland. Yeah,
just where the border guards were and so forth. We also at one time had an
arrangement with the Gestapo where they would supply.
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Ottenheimer: A cab or a number of cabs and actually drive these people
over into Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: For a reasonable amount of money. And it was quite
reasonable. And uh, the uh-- in fact, this is how.
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Ottenheimer: Most of the people were taken over there.
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Ottenheimer: I suspect that the Gestapo also sent their spies over.
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Ottenheimer: The same way. This gave them the opportunity.
00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:08.000
Ottenheimer: In spying with the refugees. But anybody who had.
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Ottenheimer: No political record and no criminal record of any sort, we
would ask them to show up at our house. We would then clearly, you know,
turn the name and two to the Gestapo contact with the head and tell them
how many people were going.
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Ottenheimer: And they'd check out the papers and make.
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Ottenheimer: Sure there wasn't any political refugee. They were only.
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Ottenheimer: Allowed to take.
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Ottenheimer: I think, ten marks per person, which was at that time about
two and a half dollars.
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Ottenheimer: So we sent the rest of the money. Or give them postal forms
and such, they could send.
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Ottenheimer: The rest of the money back to their relatives.
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Ottenheimer: And they would go into Switzerland and.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:05.000
Ottenheimer: I think most of them ended up in the United States.
00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.000
Ottenheimer: And then a few that came who.
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Ottenheimer: Had the Nazis in pursuit. For example, one was a famous
journalist who had written rather strong against the Nazis. Strasser: Do
you know his name? Ottenheimer: Uh. Maybe Raphael?
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.000
Ottenheimer: He died in Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: 5 or 6 years ago, and I really don't know.
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Ottenheimer: My father would remember his name. I think he ended up.
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Ottenheimer: As a professor at some university in Switzerland.
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Ottenheimer: But when he came.
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Ottenheimer: He let us know right away that the Nazis were looking for
him, and of course we wouldn't turn him over to the Gestapo procedure. And
we took them for a walk along the border and pointed out where he had to go
and off he went.
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Ottenheimer: Saw him identify himself to the Swiss Guard on the other side
and walk away with him. Now, any anybody who was a political refugee.
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Ottenheimer: Was given sanctuary by this force and received for normal
existence.
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Ottenheimer: And he definitely.
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Ottenheimer: Qualified for that under those rules.
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Strasser: [Sighs] Were there any organizations in Constance aside from the
synagogue for the Jewish people?
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Ottenheimer: Well, my father used to belong to a Jewish Veterans
Organization.
00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:26.000
Ottenheimer: Which was a national German organization-- German-Jewish.
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Ottenheimer: I am not aware. I'm sure there were some.
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Ottenheimer: Jewish organizations of a national basis. All of the German
which had some activity in Constance but I don't know where else, my
parents were't involved.
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Strasser: Do you know if your relatives went through HIAS to get your your
family to America?
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Ottenheimer: We contacted HIAS after we came over here. And of course, the
big question was where do.
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:14.000
Ottenheimer: You find a job? This is where we approached HIAS for help. We
ask them to help us find a job. I just went there.
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Ottenheimer: I think we checked.
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Ottenheimer: In with them once a month. And they said sorry we don't have
anything. Strasser: They tried and they didn't have anything? Or--
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Ottenheimer: I suppose they tried.
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Ottenheimer: That was a middle of a depression and there just weren't any
jobs to be had, but we did not have the greatest impression of HIAS.
Nothing particularly personal about it. Not encouraging at all. [??], the
clerical procedure. Now we've made-- our feelings towards HIAS were rather
negative, and this may have been unjustified. They have made every effort
to find jobs. There just weren't many jobs.
00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:22.000
Strasser: You helped people save them from Austria to get into
Switzerland. Did you have a concerted effort within the Jewish community of
Constance to get out, or have you kept in contact with anybody?
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:27.000
Ottenheimer: The rest of the Jewish community at that time was scared
stiff and.
00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.000
Ottenheimer: Thought we were going to get them all in trouble by doing
this.
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Strasser: You're doing this by yourself, your family?
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:54.000
Ottenheimer: Yes we were doing this by ourselves. Strasser: Oh, right.
Ottenheimer: And all of them. Even 1 or 2 other families who were doing it
to some extent, though not as active as we were. And there were several
people who warned us that we were endangering the lives of the whole Jewish
communtiy by doing this.
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Strasser: How did the rabbi in Vienna get your name? Ottenheimer: Excuse
me? Strasser: How did the rabbi in Vienna get your name?
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:05.000
Ottenheimer: Well, I think what happened is the way it started, it was
simply a matter of saturation.
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:54.000
Ottenheimer: They headed for all the border towns and they asked around
who could help. They went to a Jewish community. And uh somehow we helped a
few families that we heard of and they must have written back to Vienna and
said so-and-so will help you. Very quickly, the word spread. I think they
took care of them. Several hun-- several hundred people. I would say
probably 5 or 6 hundred or so. Sometimes we'd have them sleeping all over
the floor every night.
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Ottenheimer: Took about a day to.
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Ottenheimer: Clear the papers with the Gestapo and uh make the
arrangements for the cabs.
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.000
Ottenheimer: The Gestapo gave them papers for crossing the border.
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.000
Strasser: That doesn't make sense. That sounds funny, doesn't it?
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:28.000
Ottenheimer: Uh, I don't know. You know, it's nice to say that, well,
there were some good people among them, but I don't believe that was their
reason. That's why I suspect that their ulterior motive. Well, I think they
have two motives. First of all, they were anxious to get rid of.
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:39.000
Ottenheimer: These people. At that time there were no extermination camps
and they simply wanted to get them out of the country.
00:16:39.000 --> 00:17:08.000
Ottenheimer: This is something that a lot of people don't realize is that
Hitler was not holding us back. He was not keeping us from migrating to
other countries. There was nothing he wanted more than to get rid of us.
The only problem was, where do you go? Who will accept you? The the-- the
problem was to get into a country, not to get out of Germany. Right. So I
think primarily they were anxious to get rid of these people. They were
driven out of Austria and.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:18.000
Ottenheimer: They had no place to go in Germany. And the Germans got
really anxious to have them on their hands. So they found a way of getting
them into Switzerland.
00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Ottenheimer: And I suspect, although I have no reason for-- no proof of
this, but I suspect that they.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:32.000
Ottenheimer: Probably ship their own agents into foreign countries along
with the refugees.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.000
Ottenheimer: Although I don't think they have to go to this trouble.
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:45.000
Ottenheimer: It was very easy for the to cross the border. They didn't
have to go to all this trouble.
00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:47.000
Ottenheimer: So I think mostly they just.
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:56.000
Ottenheimer: Wanted to get rid of them and they were helping to ship them
across.
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Strasser: So was HIAS as the first organization of Jewish people you came
across in America? Ottenheimer: Yes. Strasser: What was the most important
organization for Jewish people you first knew of?
00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:18.000
Ottenheimer: Well HIAS was, we were told that HIAS was, of course,
specifically.
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:58.000
Ottenheimer: The primary purpose of it was to help immigrants. And we were
told that this was the most important organization that could help us. We
never got any help. I don't know of any friends of the family or
acquaintances that were getting any and there was a general hard feeling
about the HIAS. Now, as I say, some of this may have been totally
unjustified. We were rather hungry and we were extremely anxious to find a
chance to get a job. Maybe our expectations were just too high.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:06.000
Ottenheimer: That these people were able to conjure up some jobs when they
just weren't any. Strasser: Yeah. Ottenheimer: And when they couldn't come
through with jobs.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Ottenheimer: We blamed it on them rather than economic conditions.
Strasser: Who did.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000
Strasser: You stay with in New York when you first.
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:18.000
Strasser: Arrived? Ottenheimer: Well, my sister came to the United States
before we did. She came a year.
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.000
Ottenheimer: Before we did. Strasser: How did she manage?
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:27.000
Ottenheimer: Well, she uh-- I think an uncle put up an affidavit
specifically.
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:36.000
Ottenheimer: For her to come over to the states and. She came over and
ahead of the rest of the family. And got a job with a family.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:42.000
Ottenheimer: Taking care of their children.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:49.000
Ottenheimer: Guess she never spent a penny of what she made, and she saved
it all. And this is what we had to go on when the rest of the family came
over.
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.000
Strasser: So she got an apartment together for you.
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:53.000
Strasser: And the uncle? Ottenheimer: Well, she made.
00:19:53.000 --> 00:20:03.000
Ottenheimer: The arrangements to foreign apartment, and she looked around
before we came over.
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.000
Ottenheimer: And she generally.
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:44.000
Ottenheimer: Helped us out. She was only 16 years old when she came over.
Had a full job and lot of resonsibility. She lived with the family. So the
her money is what got us started until my mother found a job. My
grandfather, my father and I took care of the cooking and washing and
cleaning the house while my mom had her job.
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:46.000
Strasser: Your sister already knew English?
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:48.000
Ottenheimer: Continued.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:21:14.000
Ottenheimer: Working and she knew more English than the rest of us. I
picked up English a lot faster than my parents did. Arguing that the super
and doing shopping and doing things like that, some knowledge of English
was neccessary.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.000
Strasser: What? Do you remember the address of his first apartment in
Bronx?
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:22.000
Ottenheimer: Yes. 74 West 165th Street.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.000
Strasser: And how long did he stay there?
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.000
Ottenheimer: Let's see. Stayed there.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:33.000
Ottenheimer: Until. Well, until I.
00:21:33.000 --> 00:22:01.000
Ottenheimer: Was inducted into the Army, I believe. Let's see, I was doing
high school. So in 1944 I entered the Army. And when I came out in 1946, my
parents had moved.
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:07.000
Ottenheimer: to Manhatten. 3675 Broadway.
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.000
Strasser: And your sister had continued to work for this family until she
got-- Ottenheimer: Well.
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.000
Ottenheimer: She worked for that family.
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:27.000
Ottenheimer: Then uh-- let's see--she worked for another family.
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.000
Ottenheimer: I guess that's right. She did that.
00:22:29.000 --> 00:23:05.000
Ottenheimer: Kind of work until she got married. She and her husband had
an apartment. Two girls. She got divorced sometime later. Strasser: She
still in New York? Ottenheimer: Yes, she's still in New York. And her
children are married. One lives in New York and one's living in Boston.
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:14.000
Strasser: Well after HIAS. What other organizations did you come across?
Did any ever help you? Um.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000
Ottenheimer: Not a lot. I suppose we.
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:26.000
Ottenheimer: Were rather proud of the fact that we never needed any help
after the once we got started.
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:38.000
Ottenheimer: Initially, we knocked at all kinds of doors and tried to my
father tried to sell soap, kosher soap, door to door. And I was trying very
hard to think of some way of.
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:42.000
Ottenheimer: Scraping some money together. Strasser: Where did you get the
kosher salt?
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:46.000
Ottenheimer: Well, he bought kosher soap from.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:51.000
Ottenheimer: Rocets [??] or somebody, and. He then.
00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:52.000
Ottenheimer: Took the case of it and.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:24:10.000
Ottenheimer: Went knocking at doors saying everybody needs kosher. So
naturally. That didn't work out. And I think he tried to get into fuller
brushes and but of course, they didn't want anyone who couldn't speak
English. Yeah.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.000
Strasser: I've had a fast line.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:20.000
Ottenheimer: If you don't speak, that's fine. So it wasn't until he found
a job in the theatre, which I guess he.
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Ottenheimer: Found because his brother was doing the same kind of work
and. And then he started substituting.
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:35.000
Ottenheimer: In the same theater that his brother was my uncle was working
at and then he found out about an opening.
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.000
Ottenheimer: It was dirty work.
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:52.000
Ottenheimer: And I think that his hours were from around midnight until 6
or 7 or 8. And uh it's just a matter of scrubbing and cleaning.
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.000
Strasser: Was he depressed over it?
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.000
Ottenheimer: No, he built up quite a bit of enthusiasm.
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:08.000
Ottenheimer: Used to tell us about how the Boss complimented him about how
nice and shiny his glass was.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.000
Ottenheimer: I guess you might say that whatever job he did.
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Ottenheimer: He put his whole self into it and he was just as proud of of
the way he.
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:18.000
Ottenheimer: Did the brass in the.
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:27.000
Ottenheimer: Theater as as Kissinger was of having an agreement between
the Irish and Israel [laughs]. To him, this was.
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.000
Ottenheimer: The most important thing.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:59.000
Ottenheimer: In the world at the time, amd he wanted to do the best
possible job. Of course, it was completely different from the kind of work
he'd done before. Slept all day and worked all night. Strasser: And your
mother worked all day and slept all night. Ottenheimer: Right. But we
maintained a pretty good family relationship and somehow managed to keep
our sense of humour.
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:04.000
Strasser: And did your family join the synagogue soon after that?
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:06.000
Ottenheimer: We let's.
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.000
Ottenheimer: See now. We belonged to.
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:35.000
Ottenheimer: A congregation of refugees from Germany. Met in a old
storefront, second floor building. Place is gone now. Very modest sort of
thing. Strasser: So German rabbi? Ottenheimer: German rabbi yes.
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.000
Ottenheimer: I suppose.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:43.000
Ottenheimer: We. Yes, we belong to German congregations until.
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:44.000
Ottenheimer: Until my parents bought a.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:17.000
Ottenheimer: House in the Bronx. This was after I left the home. Then they
joined a local congregation in West Bronx, which was a general Orthodox
Jewish congregation. And then they moved to an apartment just about 5 or 6
years ago. And then they joined the World War I Congregation, which was
Orthodox.
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:28.000
Strasser: The rabbi of this first synagogue that moved. Did he encourage
Americanization?
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:41.000
Ottenheimer: Oh, I think it was the general assumption that everyone is
trying to assimilate as much as possible. I don't think there's any
particular on the part of the rabbi to.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.000
Ottenheimer: Encourage this or.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:48.000
Ottenheimer: Discourage it. Part of his business.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.000
Ottenheimer: But his sermons were in German.
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:54.000
Ottenheimer: We'll talk about them.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:12.000
Ottenheimer: The horrible things that happened in Germany, which, of
course, was still very much on the mind of the congregation. So this. Tied
them all together emotionally.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Ottenheimer: Rabbi himself, I suppose.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:29:03.000
Ottenheimer: Had a part time job somewhere else, and he just made a few
extra dollars by being a rabbi to the congregation. I'm pretty sure he was
not ordained. But he was learned and tolerant. Strasser: And his name?
Ottenheimer: His name was Mr. Schattland. S.C.H.A.T.T.L.A.N.D. The John
equivalent of Scotland. I don't know anyone else. That was the first one--
the one that we were associated with for the longest time. There may have
been some others.
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:04.000
Ottenheimer: But the.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:05.000
Ottenheimer: People who belong.
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:24.000
Ottenheimer: To the congregation were all pretty much the same category,
same financial status. Scraping through somehow, trying to make a go of it.
Trying to send the kids to college so that they could go somewhere.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:30.000
Ottenheimer: There was a-- this was now the German Jewish population.
00:29:30.000 --> 00:30:03.000
Ottenheimer: In New York was concentrated mostly in what is facetiously
referred to as the Fourth Reich, which was, well, of course, Hitler
referred to his regime as a Third Reich. And this was a Washington Heights
area of Manhattan. And there was a cafeteria up there where all the old
German refugees would come and every, I think every Saturday night and they
would sit down and have a.
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Ottenheimer: Cup of coffee and.
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:13.000
Ottenheimer: Nurse that cup of coffee for 3 or 4 hours and just talk about
old times and exchange experiences and such.
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.000
Ottenheimer: And of course, it drove.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:27.000
Ottenheimer: The cafeteria out of business because they used up all the
seats and nobody else could come in. Man couldn't sell any sandwiches or
soup or carry over anything. Strasser: Poor guy [laughs].
00:30:27.000 --> 00:31:27.000
Ottenheimer: He was trying to.
