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Speaker 1: And what role of your mother, what role of your mother did?
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Speaker 1: Or do you find reinforcement of your own self esteem? And why
are these important to you?
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Frankie Pace [Pace]: Well, with my with my mother, I was raised in a rural
area and what we call a country. And I was raised by very strict parents.
And uh my mother always taught us how to do things, and she practiced that
in front of us. And sometimes I would feel that she was very rigid with us.
But this has had a great impression on me in my adult life. The things that
I thought was wrong she was doing, I found out that they were very
necessary. And if some of those things were taught today by black women to
their children, I think we would have much better children.
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Speaker 1: How much education have you received?
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Speaker 1: Has it been enough? Pace: I have finished high school, 12th
grades of
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Pace: High school. And I have had. Some college training at a junior
college. Not as much as I would like to have had, but at the time this was
all that I was able to acquire.
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Pace: Then I became ill and had to come out of school.
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Pace: Because of health reasons. But this is what the education that I've
had has helped me much in my endeavor in life. What I've had so far.
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Speaker 1: How much education should a black woman have in order to be
successful?
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Pace: I think that she should have all that she can get. I think every
black woman ought to have at least some training, either in some skill that
she's not able to do college work. I think if she's a student and able to
do college work, she should have at least a master's degree,a doctor if
possible. If not, if she's handy with her hands or with skills, she should
have some kind of technical training so that she can become independent.
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Speaker 1: Has religion been an important factor in raising your family?
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Pace: Yes, religion have been. In fact, I am a daughter of a minister and
I have been trained in religious and it has followed me through my life.
It's been a guide for me and for my children. My son, who is now deceased,
was a minister. And I think my background that I got from my parents have
been the mainstay of me because I have a strong faith in God and they
taught me of that. And when great obstacles and things come against me, I
can always.
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Pace: Return to that faith that was created in me by my parents. Whom I
really am grateful for.
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Speaker 1: What kinds of sacrifice have you made for your children?
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Pace: Well, I made a very big sacrifice because I wanted my children to be
better educated than I was. Now, my son. Had a condition and he wasn't able
to go to college. He finished high school and he went into the ministry. He
died at an early age, 24. My daughter has been educated. Through graduate
and she has now a master's degree. She's independent and she's making a and
I made a great sacrifice because she went to Pitt University of Pittsburgh
when it wasn't state related and had to sacrifice much to get that tuition.
But it's meant much to me and to her. So she's an independent person in her
own right today.
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Speaker 1: How much do you feel a woman should sacrifice for her
children?
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Pace: Well, I don't think no sacrifice is too great to make for your
children if they are worthy of this. And I and I because I remember when I
made great sacrifice with my daughter, many people said to me, Why would
you do that? And she's going to get married. I said, but I feel that she
needs it because even if she get married and something happened to your
husband and you have children who are going to take care of them, so you
need to be prepared as well as the man. So I think a woman ought to make a
great sacrifice for her children, both boys and girls.
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Speaker 1: Name and discuss a few ways in which religion, self esteem and
family upbringing determine your career.
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Pace: Well, I was I was raised, as I told you in the beginning.
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Pace: In a religious home. My father was. They always taught me.
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Pace: As a child. In fact, my family, they taught us that children. That
they should always obey God. And this I taught that to my children. And I'm
working now in a business here which I handle all religious things. And
this was come from my upbringing. I married a man who was interested in
writing religious music, and this is the way this has created me. I don't
believe in going. I like other businesses, but I love this better than
anything else. And I think this is all due to my upbringing from my
religious background.
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Speaker 1: Why did you or didn't you as an adult, join clubs, church
auxiliaries, sororities, or national organizations?
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Pace: I did join churches and I did join clubs in the church and I joined
clubs of the community. I was never a social club, so I never had a desire
to join a sorority or a social club because I felt that I should join
things where I could be of much benefit to the community. And I thought I
could do this better by working with civic organizations and with
organizations in the church.
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Speaker 1: What active moves have you made as an organizational member
that affects a large number of blacks?
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Pace: Well, I have tried in all of the organizations that I've worked in.
As I said before, they were either civic or some benefit to the community.
And I have given practically all of my life, 40 years since I've been here
in Pittsburgh to try to the to help advance the community, especially in
which black people live and still doing that at my age. And I'm now a
senior citizen and I have done this for 40 years in Pittsburgh. No pay.
I've done everything on a volunteer basis.
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Speaker 1: Have any organization for blacks ever made help available to
you or anyone in your family and discussed this?
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Pace: Would you repeat that again?
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Speaker 1: Okay. Have any organization for blacks ever made help available
to you or anyone in your family?
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Pace: Well, organizations that I have worked with. It's not what you might
say. All black except the church of. But I have they have been some of the
organizations I worked in, like NAACP and other community organizations,
Urban League and things like that. They have been beneficial in many ways,
not only to my own family, but in me helping other people in their families
through these other things.
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Speaker 1: What changes, if any, occurred in black organizations since
World War II and during the 50s?
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Pace: Well, I think since uh since the 50s, I mean, in the early 60s,
after many disturbances throughout the country, I think especially the
younger black person was aroused, which he didn't seem too much to think
about himself. But since these things, I think they have become more
conscious. You know, many people at one time did not want to be called
black organizations, but because they thought there was some stigma to it.
But I think today people are very proud to say that I'm a black or I'm an
Afro-American or whatever it is now. And they found out later that there is
not a stigma. It's not the color of the skin of what it is. It's the person
that's inside of the person. So I think we did become much conscious of it
and obviously are doing a greater work now than they were in the early
days.
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Speaker 1: What do you feel is the most powerful attribute a black woman
has and how should she use it?
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Pace: I think in my now, this is my own thinking. I think the most
powerful thing in the black woman is to hold herself in high esteem.
Especially morally in front of young people, that they might be an example
to them. And this is what I have always tried to do. I've tried to practice
not one day, but every day, high moral character in the community, in the
church and everywhere, so that what I do might have an effect on younger
people, that there's somebody might want to emulate my life the way I
conduct myself.
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Speaker 1: At what point in your life, if any, did you feel a sense of
responsibility for other blacks?
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Pace: Well, I have always felt that we should be responsible to each
other. And I think this is one thing that was lacking. We didn't think
enough about each other because I've always been taught to be our brother's
keeper and we can only climb by lifting. And I've always felt that I was
responsible to help others who were less fortunate or in any way. That's
why I'm working today, as I do, is to try to help others to get to where I
think they ought to try to make.
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Speaker 1: Have you ever attended a church sponsored school? Was it
lacking in its program or quality of education? Pace: My the first.
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Pace: School I attended after I left the rural area was a little church
related college. Now, we didn't have the highest quality of education like
you have now. But we had a good training there because we had a church
training. We was we were supervised. With the Spartans. We watched over and
we got a much better education, even though we didn't have all the
facilities like swimming pools and gymnastics and things. I feel that that
I got good background training that has helped me as of today to go through
the world from that little church school.
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Speaker 1: It's the woman as head of a household. A bad thing or a good
thing?
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Pace: I think a woman as head of the household. Is a bad thing and a good
thing. It's both. Now because I think of that. Children in a household.
There should be a father in. But if there is a bad image from the father, I
think that a woman is much better off to head it up alone. If the father is
not a good image there in the household.
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Speaker 1: As a proud black woman, what pieces of your culture or heritage
are you leaving with the younger black woman? Pace: Well, I.
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Pace: Hope that the younger black woman. Will see in in my life that I
have tried to live it here some 60 odd years that I have tried to be an
example, as I told you before, morally, spiritually. And in my every walk
of life that they feel the greatest thing to any race is its womanhood. And
that if women do not respect themselves. I've always tried. Then if you
will do that to yourself, other people will respect you. And I hope that
the younger black woman will see this, because this is very important to
me.
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Speaker 1: Do you think that it is better for a woman to work and have a
career or take welfare so that she can be with her children?
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Pace: I think it's better for a woman to work than to take welfare,
because the reason for that. Well, there has a stigma with many people, not
only on the press[??] but on the children. And I think if you can get a
career and work, you can hire somebody and pay them to look after your
children. It's not the time you spend for the children, but it's what you
give the children when you're with them and with welfare that you might
give time, but you have nothing else to offer. And I think a well trained
child that you could educate and you cannot do this with welfare. So I
think a career is better than accepting welfare.
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Speaker 1: Do you object to the image of blacks on television, radio and
in the news? What kind of exaggeration do you notice? Pace: Well, I think
on television.
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Pace: Some of the black create a very good image of us when they act in
certain places where they belittle the black people. I think this is a very
bad image. I think we're doing away with that now. But, you know, it used
to be like the Amos and Andy Show and things like that. They were always
using the degrading part of the black instead of things that was uplifting.
So I think today we don't have as much of that. And I think that black
people now that are coming on television, most of them, unless it's just in
some kind of comic, are trying to do something.
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Pace: Uplifting to the black race. Speaker 1: How did you determine your
own destiny?
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Speaker 1: Do you feel that society in America dominates your actions most
of your adult life? No, I don't.
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Pace: Feel that society has dominated. I have always been a type of
person. Just try and see things in my in my own way and not follow a crowd
or follow society. I know it has an effect on people if you are not strong,
but I have always been. I felt I've been strong enough to not let society
dominate me. If I felt that something was good about it, I'd pick it up. If
it was wrong, I didn't participate in it, even though it was what most of
the people were doing. I have always felt it's better to stand alone and do
things that are good than follow a crowd doing things that are wrong.
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Speaker 1: Well, how do you choose to determine your own destiny? Pace:
Well uh. now let's see.
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Pace: I think one can choose their own destiny by using.
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Pace: They are own mind. And their own thoughts.
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Pace: Not not by doing everything, but by using your own thinking about
yourself and what you think is best for you yourself than what somebody
else tell you. But think for yourself, think it out, and then choose your
destiny with your own thinking.
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Speaker 1: Do you. Do you involve yourself in decision of the local school
board when your children are directly affected? Pace: Yes, in all ways.
Speaker 1: How do you influence what they are taught?
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Pace: Well by trying to visit the school and see what is being taught to
the children. And if I feel that there's something that I don't think they
should have, I would go to the heads of the department. Speak about it to
see if it couldn't be corrected. And I think that's one thing we need to do
today.
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Speaker 1: In what ways do you curb your spending and the white
Anglo-Saxon Protestant business world?
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Pace: Well, I am trying now right in the community which I live with,
trying to establish black businesses and ask black people to support them
instead of going downtown into the biggest stores and try to support black
small black businesses so they can become big black businesses. And this
way our community can build and become a substantial community where people
can be hired and work. But if they have no businesses, then you won't have
any place that you can hire them.
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Speaker 1: And you do cater to black businesses.
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Pace: Yes, I do. Anywhere that I can can cater to black business, even if
I sometimes have to go out the way a little bit, I will do that.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Do you remember any joint business venture by any black
organization, clubs or sorority?
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Speaker 1: And were they successful and who supported them?
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Pace: I don't. I don't. I can't recall. Any particular business that has
been promoted by a club or sorority? Not since I have been here. I have.
And so but I. I only know of small co-ops. But they were not supported by
clubs. Rather they were just individual people who brought them together.
And they some of them have been successful when they could get support from
the community. And but that's all that I've known. I don't know of any. And
still no many clubs now they may later there may be some that I'm not
knowledgeable knowledgeable of that I don't know they yet.
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Speaker 1: Okay. How much education do most of your friends have? How does
it seem to help or hinder or hinder the development of their children?
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Pace: Well, most of my friends, I have young friends, older friends, and
most of them are very well educated. Some are not. But most of them that
have children are trying to do the very best they can to educate their
children with top knowledge so that they can be successful. And because
they are younger, most of my friends are younger than I am and they have
had better opportunities so that they can do.
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Pace: More for their children than I could when I came along. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
