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Barry Baltzley: So, what's the first organization of Jewish people you
remember of being organized or that existed when you came to this country?
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Alfred S. Markus: Well, we have an organization called the Friendship
Club, which is an organization of Jewish people who came also during the
Hitler era, who came to Pittsburgh, mostly German speaking. Baltley:
Right.
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Baltzley: Right. And so this is as its name would suggest. I guess a, uh,
a kind of, uh, a place for-- it's a social club more than anything else.
No?
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Markus: Well, I wouldn't say so. We have a lot of cultural activities. Uh,
we have religious services during the high Jewish holidays. Baltzley: I
see. Markus: We have quite a lot of help-- self-help activities. We we try
to help other immigrants.
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Baltzley: Yes. And so it, it is one of those ethnic organizations, like a
lot of others that exist, [Markus: Yes, yes] the Sons of Italy for the
Italian immigrant. Markus: Yeah. Baltzley: So on. So on. Markus: Yes.
Baltzley: I see. And, uh, do you remember when you first became involved
with it, who the most prominent member of it was?
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Markus: The most prominent. I don't think there was any prominent member
really. [laughter]
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Baltzley: Well, not, I guess, prominent in the sense of being prominent in
society as a whole, but the one who was sort of in charge and organized
things in the organization and kept it going.
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Markus: There was a man by the name Fred Bader He was the first president.
He's not active anymore.
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Baltzley: And his name? is Fred?
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Markus: Bayder. B A D E R. But he got away from it then. He's not a member
anymore.
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Baltzley: And was-- the organization then sort of founded about the time
you came here.
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Markus: I was one of the founders. Baltzley: Oh. Markus: Yes. Baltzley: I
see.
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Baltzley: And does it exist under the same name-- Markus: Yes. Baltzley:
or something in other parts of the country?
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Markus: No. There are similar organizations. I think it's run by the same
name in, in Miami. But this is just accidental.
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Baltzley: And so. I suppose this would have been at that time the most
important, if not the only such organization for Jewish immigrants in the
Pittsburgh area. Markus: I think so. Baltzley: Aside from their religious
affiliation.
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Markus: Well, I was in the YMHA quite a bit, although I wasn't a member,
but I hung around and I was hanging around the libraries there and --
Baltzley: Right. Markus: I enjoyed it. Baltzley: But it-- Markus: These
facilities were open to anybody.
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Baltzley: And I suppose it was good in its way, but it didn't offer the
kind of services that would be needed by the immigrants so much as by the
Jewish community that was already here? Or would you say that it was also
of service, the YMHA, to the to the immigrant?
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Markus: Not specifically but to-- but it fulfilled many needs that we had
together with other people.
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Baltzley: I see. I Suppose a good many of the people you knew were also
either instrumental in founding the Friendship Club or got, got into
membership later. Markus: Yes, yes. Baltzley: And so you were the-- one of
the founders? One of the officers?
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Markus: Yes, I think I was the first secretary. Since then, I have been
president twice and I'm-- right now I'm president again.
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Baltzley: Since none of your, um, immediate family remained in Germany and
survived the Second World War. Any-- do you still have any contact with any
relatives or friends? Markus-- Well, I have--
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Markus: One uncle who survived by hiding in Holland. A Dutch priest hidden
for 27 months and his family. And they survived, came to the United States.
The uncle died, but his wife and his son and his family are still living in
New York. And I have contact with them.
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Baltzley: Yes, but not with anyone still living in Germany?
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Markus: In Germany I have a distant relative. Yeah I visited him last year
when I visited Germany again for the first time.
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Baltzley: And while-- how, at what time was it that you realized that he
was still there and still living and you got up a correspondence. How did
how did that come about?
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Markus: Well, it happened. He must-- his [coughs] his father and he
survived the war in Palestine. And they moved back to Berlin after the end
of The Second World War, and he-- the father somehow found out my address
here in Pittsburgh and he wrote me and then our connection broke off. And
recently I needed some information from the son, and he responded in a very
friendly way. So when we visited Germany last year, we visited him and
since then we have been in correspondence.
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Baltzley: You mentioned-- you mentioned your continuing activity at Temple
Sinai. Markus: Yeah. Baltzley: Um, just as sort of as a general way of
describing that over the years while you've been here, would you say you've
sort of been an active, regular member?
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Markus: No, I'm not. I'm not very active. No, I'm just-- once in a while I
go there. But I can't say I'm an active member.
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Baltzley: Your contact with organized groups in the community has been
more along the lines of the Friendship Club. Markus: Yeah.
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Markus: Yes. Yes. I belong to the Freemasons.
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Baltzley: How long have you been in that? I think since 59. Baltzley: Yes
I see. Um, do you find that there are great many-- the membership of the
Friendship Club as it now stands-- the country of origin of lots of those
people, or if they be second generation and their parents and so on. Do a
great many of them come from Germany or elsewhere?
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Markus: Most of them come from Germany and they-- and, and some come from
Austria. That's about the bulk of Germany and Austria.
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Baltzley: So I guess that would sort of describe the the Jewish community
in the Pittsburgh area as a whole, mostly German origin?
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Markus: No, I wouldn't say so, no. No, I would say the the greater part of
the Jewish community comes from [??]. But they are second and third
generation.
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Baltzley: And I, I know you mentioned that the club does have religious
services around the high holy days and so on. So there's obviously a
connection. I want to pursue that for a minute. I-- for instance, uh, one
assumes that there would be some members of the club who are rabbis.
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Markus: No. Baltzley: No? Markus: Oh, wait a minute. Yeah I think Rabbi
Jacob is a member. Baltzley: I see. Markus: Ask my wife. Mommy [??], is
Rabbi Jacob A member of our club? Oh, his parents-- he died. His parents
died. Yeah
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Baltzley: I See. And so. Markus: Mmm? No. Baltzley: I see. And so around
the holiday time, what sort of religious activities does the club engage
in?
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Markus: Well, as I said, we have the services. Rosh Hashana is one of the
high holidays and the other one is Yom Kippur. Although I don't attend them
regularly. I attend the services at Temple Sinai. That's many, many people
who enjoy the old rites, you know, that they are used to from where there
and they go there.
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Baltzley: Uh, does your club have a building that's owned to meet in?
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Markus: No, we rent quarters.
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Baltzley: And that's, that's where these religious services, as well as
your other meetings, take place.
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Markus: No, our other meetings take place here in a hall in Squirrel Hill,
while the religious services are in the Anderson house. It's, It's a Senior
citizens affair. Baltzley: Nice.
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Baltzley: Yes. Well. Insofar as you can estimate what it would be-- uh,
Temple Sinai's rabbi now, or others that you may have known earlier. I
suppose I, I'm thinking specifically of the one who would have been there
while the war was going on. Did, did he take-- What was his reaction to all
of the events in Germany?
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Markus: Where the action was generally one of abhorrence. Baltzley: Right.
And uh-- Markus: Look, you are not being interviewed. Please. [laughter]
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Baltzley: Yes. I'm afraid our recorder won't pick up for her voice. Maybe
she'd like to come in and join us. Mmhmm. Um. And did he-- being as how
this is a reform, I presume that the chances are that he would have been
more in favor of, what is broadly called Americanization then would a rabbi
of the Orthodox tradition say was the rabbis that you have known through
Temple Sinai-- have they been sort of taking a role in bringing the
immigrant into the mainstream of American society.
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Markus: No, I can't say that there was no-- there's no particular
interests shown in, in any of the congregations for immigrants as such. See
these are different-- These are different. The one is a religious affair
and the other one is on a cultural level. I would say that the immigrants
as a whole have rather well adapted themselves to, to get into the
mainstream. And most of them economically settled. And, I don't think you
find this-- you find any resistance to adaptation and assimilation. And,
and the best-- the best proof of this is that our children are completely,
already in the mainstream that the Friendship Club is an aging group. You
know, we don't get any of the second generation. Very few-- get a few,
maybe. Baltzley: Yes. Markus: But for instance, my daughter, you know,
she's hardly interested. She has her own-- she's already in other things
and she has no interest in it. So it's the same thing with the other
children.
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Baltzley: The kind of organizations that they have chosen to join then
would be not the kind that would be needed by someone who at one point was
an immigrant. Markus: No, no. Baltzley: But rather the kind that are
thoroughly American organizations [Markus: Right, right] and are native to
this country.
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Markus: There's no, no difference anymore in the second generation. Maybe
they have a little bit of the Backround.You know. Baltzley: right? Markus:
They bring maybe something into American society. That otherwise wouldn't
have been brought into.
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Baltzley: I'm sure that's true. In many ways I suppose that's-- that's
been the continuing story of America that for one reason or another, people
have come here, one group from this country, [Markus: Yes] a certain point
in history and another group from another country. It's different.
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Markus: An orchestra with many instruments, but they are all part of the
orchestra.
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Baltzley: Yes. And insofar as they become thoroughly American and yet
remember, um, where it is they or their ancestors or whatever, um, Came
from in some other part of the world. So maybe the strength of our country,
the awareness that the world is indeed a small place, that all of us, 1 or
2 generations back have some intimate contact with another part of the
world helps us to-- helps us to be a nation that understands other
countries.
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Markus: That's the greatness of America. You know, that you can see in
spite of minor frictions that the different strains and races who are
fairly well together.
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Baltzley: By comparison with the sort of, of things that happen elsewhere
in the world. Our frictions are indeed minor.
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Markus: If you look at Northern Ireland [telephone rings] and Ireland, if
you look at. The talks in the dig in Cyprus. I think we can consider
ourselves very fortunate.
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Baltzley: Yes, I believe that's very true indeed. I don't know whether
this phone call will be for you or not, but if it is-- [Markus: No, no.]
feel free to take it.
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Markus: I can call back. [Baltzley: I can just stop this recording.] I can
call back.
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Baltzley: Okay, fine. Um. I don't know the names of Rabbi Sivits and Rabbi
Oshinsky,
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Markus: Oshisky is dead.
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Baltzley: Um, you will probably know both those names.
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Markus: Oshinsky, I knew. He is dead long ago. Sivits I never heard of.
Baltzley: Hm. I see. Markus: Why did you happen to pick Oshinsky?
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Baltzley: Well, I. Believe that there was some sort of event that made the
newspapers involving those two Rabbis-- [Markus: It was long ago] uh, some,
some difference of opinion or approach to, to the events involving Jewish
immigrants. I'm not quite sure what it was, but tell me a bit, if you will,
about Rabbi Oshinsky.
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Markus: I know very little about him. I heard him once in a while talking
in meetings. And he-- usually started in English. Then very soon he
switched to Yiddish and although it is similar to German. I had a hard time
following him.
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Baltzley: Yes, that's that dialect that is a sort of germanized Hebrew, is
it not?
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Markus: No. Baltzley: No. Markus: It is, it is really medieval German.
See. What happened is this. That the Jews were settling in the Rhine
Valley. You know? And then the Crusades came. And the Crusaders-- they,
they were masochists. You know, they, they were-- they felt so as strongly
Christians that they felt that they had to massacre a few Jews, you know.
And the Polish kings offered those Jews-- refuge, you know. And they took
the medieval language with them. Baltzley: Yes. Markus: And, um, but they
took some Hebrew words into it and also some Polish words. Or Russian
words, maybe.
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Baltzley: That's where the--
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Markus: But if he talks slowly, I can pretty much still understand him. If
he talks slowly.
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Baltzley: Yes, I know. I've heard that there is a considerable literature.
Sholem Aleichem. Markus: Yes. Baltzley: And other writers in yiddish uh,
that so much is lost in English translation, according to the people who
are able to read those-- Markus: Yeah. Well I can't read it unfortunately.
Baltzley: I've read a bit of Herman Wouk's writing about Orthodox Judaism,
which he has occasion to mention that.
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Markus: He is an Orthodox Jew.
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Baltzley: Yes. He's written a book describing that for the non-Jew and I
found it quite interesting. He has occasion to mention the Yiddish
literature and, and that so much is lost because it is such unique sort of
language being a combination of--
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Markus: Every every translation loses, if you know the original. See, I
still read, for instance, German poems sometimes, and next to it I see the
English translation. It's only a weak reflection. You cannot translate it.
It's almost impossible.
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Baltzley: Yes, particularly poetry. If you're trying to make the English
rhyme, because then you have to make it such a loose translation that it
hardly--
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Markus: It's almost impossible to do that.
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Baltzley: Yes, I-- I guess. Maybe we ought to talk a bit about the-- a way
in which the the Friendship Club has over the years helped the Jew coming
into this country in financial and other sort of-- getting adjusted,
finding a place to live, finding a job, sort of things.
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Markus: Yeah. Well, we have what's called a ladies auxiliary and they
contact Immigrants, and counsel them, you know, tell them [Baltzley: Right]
if you want to do this or go there, you know. And, and then it also has
become a sort of second home for some of these ladies. See, it's a sad fact
that the husbands usually dies before the wife. And these widows, they
come. We meet every Saturday. Once a week we meet. It's rather frequent for
any organization, but they come and, and enjoy themselves. As far as
monetary relief is concerned, we had-- we had need for that in the past
years when when the big waves of immigrants came. That was in 1933 to 1938,
39, and then again after the war when they came from other parts, from
Shanghai, China, where they had found temporary refuge. And-- but right
now, I would say economically, most of them are pretty well settled.
Baltzley: Right. Markus: And there's little really in the way of financial
help that is necessary.
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Baltzley: But back when it was necessary, I imagine the Friendship Club
was something that a lot of Jewish immigrants relied on quite a lot to find
the kind of things that they needed the way jobs and places to go.
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Markus: Yeah, well we helped where we could. We referred sometimes people
to jobs.
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Baltzley: Course. During the years when they were first coming because of
the Depression, there wouldn't have been, you know? what, qhat could anyone
do? It was a time when, as you said earlier, people who were already here.
Markus: Yeah. Baltzley: Had serious problems-- [Markus: Had their hard
times. That's right] other things. But, yes the mention of the widows makes
me think, um. Does, does the club have any, um, assistance at the time of
the death and the family funeral, burial arrangements, this kind of thing
in an organized way.
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Markus: Well, we have-- of course. Usually in the case of deaths we attend
the funerals in great numbers. Now we see that if you are a member of the
Friendship Club, at least you are assured of a large crowd in the funeral.
And we have some informal arrangements here with a local funeral director.
And I think people save some-- a little bit of money on their funerals.
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Baltzley: Yes, that's getting to be a major concern among people of all
religions and none nowadays because of, um, certain amount of publicity
that-- excesses in the mortuary trade have gotten past decade or so.
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Markus: It's not only the high cost of living, it's the high cost of
dying.
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Baltzley: Yes, The book was written with that very title. Yeah.
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Markus: The American way of death. Wasn't it.
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Baltzley: That's another one. Jessica Mitford wrote one of those. And, uh,
somebody else wrote the other. Yes. Uh huh. And being a member of any kind
of organization that can make some sort of-- group plan arrangements of any
kind is--
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Markus: Well, we tried. We tried to make a group health insurance
available to our members. We ought to. Baltzley: Yes. Markus: We couldn't
find anybody who would take that.
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Baltzley: Yes, That's that's the problem with health insurance, is you
have to take it out before you need it or [laughs] no one will sell it to
you. So, has your wife, through the years, also been an active participant
in the club?
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Markus: Yeah, she is secretary for god knows how long.
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Baltzley: And. Well. What would you say in general, um, were the aspects
of life in America after you reach the point where you had gotten your
registration as an account and so on. Were able to think of yourself in a
sort of. Uh, as an established American, Um, and looking back, um, or even
still at that time, those aspects of the way of life in this country that
came most into conflict with what you had known as a child in Germany and
what you were used to in the old country.
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Markus: Well, I must say, I took to the life like a duck to the water.
Yeah, Yeah. No, see I, I was never what you would call a stuffed shirt
insisting on foam--
